SSHE Book Club Discussion - Part Two: Preflop Concepts

[itsmarty]

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And then Ed laughed in his face in that very same thread.

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That's an overly dramatic depiction of the event.

Martin

[LuckyStiff]

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And then Ed laughed in his face in that very same thread.

Tight play should be 18%-20%, loose play 23%-24%.

And then I showed over 84,000 hands played by players in the Party 5/10 with a TAA profile (derived from your own rating rules) where they averaged 14% VP$IP and 2.51 BB/100. I also suggested that this might be peculiar to the Party 5/10--which I don't think you play. And after that post we heard nothing more from Ed on the subject.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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[Luv2DriveTT]

Are you following Ed's tight pre-flop chart? That seems far too low a VPIP% based on his reccomendations. I play 1/2, and 2/4 online, and middle limits in B&M rooms. I don't play that tight in either scenarios, and I generally folow Ed's advice pre-flop (with the exception for the occasional margional fold which should make my VPIP actually lower than what he is reccomending).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[AtlChip10]

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Are you following Ed's tight pre-flop chart? That seems far too low a VPIP% based on his reccomendations.

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Following Ed's general hand concepts (not chart), my VP$IP for 3/6 and 5/10 on party has been in the 15-16% range (much closer to 15 for 5/10). The reason it is not nearer to 20% is simply because there is a lot more aggression taking place above 2/4, meaning you have to muck many more hands pre-flop so that you aren't cold calling a ton of raises with unworthy hands.

Edit: I failed to mention my VP$IP for 1/2 and 2/4 were in the 17-18 range while following the concepts. They could have been slightly higher just because I did not re-raise with some hands back then. I would still expect myself to be under 19 for those limits however.

[larrondo]

A pain in the ass question. Sorry.

What does VPIP% stand for? I see it all the time. I can figure out what it means from context but what is it?

I never play online.

Thanks.

[Kenrick]

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What does VPIP% stand for? I see it all the time. I can figure out what it means from context but what is it?


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Voluntarily put into pot. Online sites will show you your preflop percentage play, and Vpip is that minus the blinds.

[Cerril]

In more aggressive or slightly tighter games, I've gone back to mucking these in EP. If I think I can get away with seeing a flop for one bet I'll be happy to play them.

[Cerril]

I found it a little odd that one comment says that you need almost perfect preflop play to be a winning player in the long run, but that players concentrate too much on preflop play.

I know that you can -sort of- reconcile those, but the implication is that there is a 'perfect' preflop strategy, and deviating from it even slightly is going to hamper your WR seriously, implying that once you get 'decent' at postflop play, you should come back and reexamine the smallest details and nitpick over every Axs and playable SB hand. Obviously, that's not true.

[Cerril]

I'm just not sure if Axs is profitable played like that unless the conditions are amazingly favorable. I think to get a +EV result from Axs you need to be pretty good at recognizing top pair and draw situations. There are a lot of highly marginal and poor top pair or paired kicker+draw situations where mucking out of hand absolutely must be done, but I feel that Axs (and in those very loose games, the K9-K2s set) definitely require the full arsenal of postflop tactics to be profitable

[Cerril]

Is there any chance of an errata being produced for this and maybe for some of the examples you felt were a little weak (I recall you mentioning one in particular you admitted was a little hasty, I don't know if there are others you'd like to have had more time with).