Theory of Poker: Chapters 8-10 Discussion

MEbenhoe · #1 09-02-2004, 12:59 AM

This week I've posted again a separate section for discussing any problems or questions from that chapter. Also, I've posted 4 Quiz Questions at the bottom. Any general discussion can be done under this heading.

MEbenhoe · #2 09-02-2004, 01:00 AM

This section is for discussing Chapter 8: The Value of Deception

MEbenhoe · #3 09-02-2004, 01:00 AM

This section is for discussing Chapter 9: Win the Big Pots Right Away

MEbenhoe · #4 09-02-2004, 01:01 AM

This section is for discussing Chapter 10: The Free Card

MEbenhoe · #5 09-02-2004, 01:02 AM

1. You are playing a $5/$10 Limit Hold Em game. You are in the SB with 8c8s. There is one limper from MP and an aggressive player in CO raises. You put him on AK, AQ, or AJ suited or offsuit. You call along with the BB and the MP limper. You make your set on the flop. You know that if you check the BB and MP limper will check too and the LP raiser will bet (and he will bet the turn as well), which will give you the option of going for the check raise right here or calling his flop bet and check raising the turn. Given this scenario, in what cases would you slowplay your set and go for the checkraise on the turn when the bets double and in what case would you checkraise on the flop immediately?

2. Consider this same situation in a NL game with $1/$2 blinds. All four players in this hand have a stack of $100 in front of them to start the hand. The LP raiser raises it to $8 and everyone calls. You make your set on a board of Ks8d6s. The flop is checked around to the LP raiser who bets $16. How would you play this? What if instead the preflop raise was only to $4 and the LP raiser bet $6 on a board of Ks8d2h?

3. You are playing a $5/$10 Limit Hold Em game. You are dealt KcKh UTG+1 and raise. You get one LP caller and the BB calls as well. The flop comes AsKs5h. BB checks, You bet, and are raised by the LP player who you put on a flush draw. The BB calls, and you put them on a pair of Aces. How would you play this hand here and why?

4. You are playing a $5/$10 Limit Hold Em game. You are in the BB with 8s7s. There are two MP limpers and the SB folds. The flop comes Ts9s2s. You bet. If you know that one MP limper has AsJc and the other has KsJd, do you want them to call or fold and why?

Boylermaker · #6 09-02-2004, 10:28 AM

I think one of the most important pieces of advice in this chapter is found in the summary (p.68):

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, though, playing your hand normally may be the best deception of all against very tough players who expect you to be deceptive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this idea can be extrapolated further to include not only players who are 'very tough' but even players who are 'adequate' or worse. How many players do you play against who expect you to play a big flopped hand like a set or straight fast on the flop? How many of them do? In my experience, against most opposition that I have played against, virtually no one puts you on those kind of hands if you bet them strongly on the flop. Not only will you pick up some additional flop bets, you might even get raised on the turn when a blank falls.

Boylermaker · #7 09-02-2004, 10:33 AM

The concept in this chapter is 'winning the big pots right away.' I don't remember it being mentioned in the chapter (it may have been, but I don't remember), but what constitutes a 'big pot'? I know this topic is covered to some degree in Miller's book, but in the opinion of posters, what constitutes a 'large pot' to you?

Boylermaker · #8 09-02-2004, 10:50 AM

1. Depending on the type of players in the hand, if there is a big card/cards on the flop, I might even consider coming out and betting it myself, if I believe at least one of the limpers might call. There is a good chance, depending on the aggressiveness of the cutoff, that he might raise the flop and get you a few more extra bets.

2. With a pot of $48, and a flush draw on board, I would move in now. I would be more inclined to play slower in the second scenario, as the board is rainbow, so there are less cards that I fear, and a greater chance of someone making a stronger hand (like 2-pair) that might pay me off (due to the lack of flush possibilities).

3. I would raise and continue betting out, irregardless of what fell. The BB will likely call you all the way with his ace. You don't want to risk the LP checking the turn, so if you plan on betting the turn, why not get the extra bet in on the flop as well?

4. I want them to call. Only 6 diamonds left, making them 7-1 to make their flush on the next card. Not enough money in the pot for them to call. And seeing as the pot is so small, I would like to win a bigger one. As well, I can get out if another spade falls.

Rudbaeck · #9 09-02-2004, 02:34 PM

1) I check-raise the flop if two-toned or monotone, the turn if rainbow.

2) I raise it to 32. The pot is huge and if anyone want to draw they have to pay. In the lower example I might just call and go for overcalls. But I suck at no limit.

3) I three-bet, a set on a dangerous board shouldn't be slowplayed.

4) I want the MP limper to call and the other to fold. If the J comes on the turn the other limper would have a redraw.

Boylermaker · #10 09-02-2004, 02:43 PM

By 'diamonds' I of course meant 'spades'. Plus one of those spades is the J, which makes the straight-flush, so the odds are even longer against -- I definitely want them both to call.