I hate my life.

[BeerMoney]

Seat 2 was respected poster FrappeBoy, and villain is a douchebag.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___raises

4th Street - (10.70 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (6.85 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises

6th Street - (15.85 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (18.85 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (20.85 BB)

[sexdrugsmoney]

= enter the n00b perspective ==

I wouldn't have raised the complete personally, but I understand why you did it.

For my money at 5th st is where you should have folded.

[Andy B]

Puke.

Fold third. With the Ace limping in, I find it unlikely that you will get it heads-up, and I find it quite likely that Frappe has a real hand. Especially in a tightly-structured game, there's just no reason to get involved.

Fifth is also a fold, in my estimation. There is nothing I hate more than calling when I'm beaten on board, but you have somehow succeeded in making this pot too big to fold on sixth.

Puke.

[CJC]

Was this hand a joke?

I am confused.

IT was horribly played right from the start. I think you know it too. I can't see one thing you did that was correct.

CJ

[Andy B]

I think that calling the three-bet on third is clearly correct. Getting to that point is another matter. I also think that calling the river is mandatory, but again, he should have folded a few different times before he got there.

[CJC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that calling the three-bet on third is clearly correct

[/ QUOTE ]

IT shouldn't have gotten to that point.

Yes, by the river.. a call is clearly correct. I agree.

CJ

[Michael Emery]

Well played. Third is a reraise as frappe likely has nothing here. Hes a weak player and has light raising requirements, this means try to get it heads-up. More than likely hes just goofing around and felt like completing with nothing here. That ace that limped dosent scare me either. With both of your 4's still live you can suck out on him later, need be. You have a great hand here with (44)Q and you need to get money in this pot. Notice beer can make two pair, trips, a full house, quads, a royal flush, a strait flush, all are possible if he catches right later on. The rest of the hand he has outs as well and should chase to see what he catches. You cant suckout if you're not in there chasing. People who disagree with how this hand was played should remember the great advice Ray Zee just gave us "correct it as so be it will be the poor house". Or uhhhh.....something like that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Mike Emery

[CJC]

that was great!!!

CJ

[vintage_sara]

Honestly, Beer I don't know what to say about this hand. I really don't see what value you think there is in this play in the long run. Not to mention on 6th the 8 seat no matter how dumb hits an open pair. I think you are drawing slim. You have to put him on a busted flush draw, a pair lower than the original jack raiser to make your call for a queen, king or four profitable. And if he happens to have aces then you are only drawing for a four.

Regardless of the result on this hand, if you are experiencing some swings or wondering why your hands played percentage is higher than you prefer, this is the type of hand I would definitely reevaluate. How many of these spots do you put yourself in. It only takes a few mistakes to bring a decent win down to a small winner or a losing session. The mistakes can add up faster than you realize.

One other thought about your play against Frappe, which I assume you were trying to get heads up or win outright through crafty high level play.

I recently got some good advice from a person whose poker skills I respect greatly when I complained that someone I consider a very solid player reraised my completion on 3rd with an ace in the door when i clearly had a big pair in the hole Kings or Queens. I folded fifth when my queen fell out and the ace also pairs his door card. He showed aces and jacks on the river...others continued in the hand so that's why I got to see it.

I was a little ticked that I was bullied on 3rd street, I said "Why bother doing that to me? The player should find a better spot and know that." (ego talking here). My friend chuckled and said come on "sara," you know when you are a good player it gives other good player some license to push you around. And you know that. But, now that you know what that player is capable of doing, you also know how to counter it.

You also know that if he decided that he is going to play the hand reraising might be better than calling as he should be attempting to get it heads up and possibly take it down right there.

Well of course I know what my friend said is absolutely correct. And probably would have said the same thing to him if he made the same complaint.

But it's funny, I don't recall making this kind of play against a good player (unless in a shorthanded game and realize that the raise could be a broad range of hands). However, I have less reservation doing it against a bad player more often because I know a) I most likely have the best hand b) if I don't I will punish him when i get there c) might spur some action from that player when I have a monster in the future.

The reasons why I don't do it against good players myself is a) they won't get too stupid on the hand and so there's no "real" money to be made at least at the limits and structure I am playing on line.

Just some thoughts....and one final note...Don't make that move with pocket fours Beer. Make it with pocket 10s with a two flush or AKQ suited. This hand shows a very marginal move and calls in my opinion all the way to the river. Way too loose.

[Andy B]

That was above average, Mike.