Trapped

blumpkin22 · #1 10-25-2005, 12:51 PM

10/20 with 1/3 ante/bring-in.

Say the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] brings it in, the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] limps, the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] limps, and you complete the bet to ten with (J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. It's folded to the king who now raises. The spades are live except for your J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] You think about just folding there because you think he has kings and you have no overcard kicker, but then the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls the raise. Now you are getting better than 6:1. So you call.

You catch the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a 3-straight to go with your pair, the King catches are off-suit 5, and the 3 catches some garbage non-diamond. The King bets and the 3 calls. Now you are getting better than 9:1. So you call.

On fifth street the boards are

(xx) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(xx) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The King bets, the 3 now folds. You are now getting 6:1 on a call. Seems like we need to see the river to try and hit two pair. Would you ever fold here if you cards were dying and you didn't have an overcard (the ace)?

Does it feel like we got trapped here? I hate chasing in this game. I like to go in with the best hand and try to prevent chasers from sucking out on me.

Bartholow · #2 10-25-2005, 03:02 PM

I don't think you should even feel bad about this hand in any way.

Andy B · #3 10-26-2005, 12:40 AM

Chasing is a fact of life in stud. If your hand is live, you have to stick around, and you should feel good about it.

Of course, I can't remember the last time I folded a pair....

#4 10-26-2005, 01:36 PM

The hand is fine, and I would prefer to play it live so that if I make the Ace going down I can watch the other guys head explode.

blumpkin22 · #5 10-26-2005, 01:40 PM

So of course the Ace on fifth made me high, and I checked. I think playing it straight and check/calling is likely best, but...does anyone consider check/raising here?

#6 10-26-2005, 01:46 PM

If you have a real tight image, you can get away with it....maybe. You could try this once in a while to vary your play, but normally I'd check and call. Can the other player lay down a hand?

Bartholow · #7 10-26-2005, 03:00 PM

I don't play against enough players who can lay down here, but I don't think the checkraise is awful.

frappeboy · #8 10-26-2005, 03:26 PM

If all your cards are live, with a straight flush kicker you have to call 3rd and see 5th street. The fact that the other guy came in is probably even better.

With all that money in the pot on 5th street you've gotta go to the river. You have a 3 straight and an overcard kicker at this point, if he has just kings you are not that big of an underdog.

What you need to be careful of here is when the other guy catches another diamond on 4th street, since now he probably has a 4 flush. If this happens u need to surrender on 4th street unless you improve greatly.

P.S.

Check raising on 5th is usually bad unless you know your opponent is a fairly good/tight player, who knows that you are a very good/tight player and has never seen u make a play like this without the hand. Usually for something like this to work you have to play with this opponent for many hours, so you should rarely be looking to make this play.

#9 10-26-2005, 04:13 PM

The check raise is good to look into here. If you have bare kings and get check-raised by the Ace in 5, what are you going to do? Put in three more bets to find out?

Ebonwoulfe · #10 10-26-2005, 04:25 PM

If the decision is +ev, the decision is +ev.

Suckouts happen because you have the odds you need to chase. Your cards are fairly live, the K up isn't necessarily improving, I think you check-raise here on the semibluff (which he might have been doing all along, but it's scary that we haven't seen any other K's) to try to either make him fold fearing your possible aces up or to get him to let you know he's rolled up.

Either way, if you have any more than a 16.5% chance of winning here, you're giving up lots of money by folding.