Perfect Game(s) of Chess

brassnuts · #1 10-11-2005, 06:07 AM

There has to exist at least one perfect game of chess, in which both sides play flawlessly. I know these boards have a few experienced chess players, and knowing the nature of a the 2+2 crowd, I'm sure some have delved into chess theory at one point or another. I happen to suck at chess. But, I think I can get better. That's beside the point, though. I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the matter. Do you think a perfect game could result in a sure victory for white, or do you think the best white could ever hope for against a perfectly playing black is a draw? Do you think there are multiple perfect games?

chezlaw · #2 10-11-2005, 06:26 AM

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There has to exist at least one perfect game of chess, in which both sides play flawlessly. I know these boards have a few experienced chess players, and knowing the nature of a the 2+2 crowd, I'm sure some have delved into chess theory at one point or another. I happen to suck at chess. But, I think I can get better. That's beside the point, though. I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the matter. Do you think a perfect game could result in a sure victory for white, or do you think the best white could ever hope for against a perfectly playing black is a draw? Do you think there are multiple perfect games?

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In principle there must be a perfect game and almost certainly many. I think there must be many as the perfect game must allow some variations that make no difference to the result.

hard to say who wins or if its a draw but I hope it turns out that black wins. The ultimate zugzwang.

chez

Darryl_P · #3 10-11-2005, 12:13 PM

I would bet $100,000 to win $1,000 that with optimal play on both sides, the game is a draw. Grandmasters and modern computers are not that far off from optimal play IMO, which I'd estimate to be about 3500 ELO points.

Also I'd bet (at better odds, though) that the number of perfect games (ie. games in which there is never a position in which one side can force a win) is over a billion.

To see why GMs play close to optimally, consider how often they'd win against a supercomputer if just 2 or 3 times you forced the computer to play a random move instead of the one it calculated. The GM's expectation would rise to over 90% in such a case which indicates that moves he does not consider seriously are very unlikely to be optimal.

#4 10-11-2005, 12:22 PM

There was a perfect game. It was played by me at the 2002 World Open in Philly. I sacced my queen, both rooks and 3 minor pieces in a flurry of tactics that began on move 19 and ended with a mate on move 46 with only a pawn and a knight. Can you imagine the look on my opponent's face when I announced 'mate in 27'?

Seriously, chess is nothing more than a very complicated tic-tac-toe. I'm not even sure if white could force a win if he was allowed two opening moves, beginning the game with e4 and d4, assuming optimal play by black.

chezlaw · #5 10-11-2005, 01:30 PM

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I would bet $100,000 to win $1,000 that with optimal play on both sides, the game is a draw. Grandmasters and modern computers are not that far off from optimal play IMO, which I'd estimate to be about 3500 ELO points. .

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I'd take that bet in a heartbeat if there was any chance of the perfect game being solved.

chez

eOXevious · #6 10-11-2005, 01:36 PM

One scientist predicted that there could be more chess games/combinations played than atoms in the entire universe... no I'm not here to argue that point, I'm just going to say that there are so many combinations... whos to say what is the perfect move, especially in beginning game, although the beginning is where most people make mistakes, the combinations of moves/counter moves are endless.

I would bet that if both people played a flawless game, it would be a draw though.... just for one reason... in order to loose you must make a mistake, cause if the game ended up ever being a win on one side... you could always go back and discuss the percise move (some games easier than others) that that player made a mistake and correct the mistake in order to force a flawless continuous play therefor always leading to a draw.