97s flops a baby

AZK · #1 12-12-2004, 01:27 PM

Hey all,

Motorcity 2-5-5, Game is 8 handed and pretty tight all around (i.e. not fun), I've started raising any 2 playable cards from the button and the CO. Villian is a close friend who can play but is a bit too aggressive and a bit too loose, when he's hitting look out, when he isn't the combination of bad beats and bad play on his part could bankrupt him sometimes. He's cold as ice tonight and has me covered, I have about $600.

A few limpers to me and I make it $20 on the button with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 callers.

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($80)

Checked to me, I make it $50 or 60, villian from the sb makes it $200. I deliberate and push. Thoughts?

A few extras, I play with him frequently, he is aware that I've started raising any 2 cards that I'd limp with from button/co, but more likely puts me on a hand like AK than a hand like 97s, and he also knows that he can take pots away from me on scary boards, he knows I won't back TPTK with my stack, so on this type of board, he knows I will fold KK, AK, and MAYBE AQ after taking a flop stab. How is this played when I have 1200 behind and he has me covered and/or against an unknown player? For the 1200, do I raise to 500 and try and get a free turn/river, wanting to see a showdown if the board doesn't pair/another club hit?

Thanks.

Cornell Fiji · #2 12-12-2004, 04:55 PM

You are raising with 97s.

It is my oppinion that if you are going to be raising with 97s you must play your flushes when you hit them.

Moreover this is one of the best possible boards that you could have flopped a flush with. If the flop was 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] then you obviously would have to worry about any big flush beating you. With the AQ on the flop there are many less potential holdings that he could have that are ahead of you right here. (for the record I would also go all in even on a 2c3c4c board here if i was raising with 97s but it is a much easier decission with the AcQc out there)

You raised preflop therefore the most likely suited holdings to beat you would be KJ, KT, JT... I can't really see him playing any other hands for a raise (ie K2s) even if he did know that you are liable to be raising with any 2 cards. If he has one of those three specific two card combinations then you stack off to him. There is a much greater chance that he holds any AA, QQ, 33, AQ, AxK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], AxJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A3s, or baby flush like 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . Than the chance that he has those 3 particular 2 card holdings (FWIW there are as many ways that he could hold pocket 3s on this board as there are hands that hold a flush that beats you here assuming he only plays KJs, KTs, JTs to a raise)

There is no way that you should fold this. If so you shouldn't be in the pot to begin with.

Most likely your opponent has AxK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or a hand like AQ or a set that he wants to take down right away before any draws hit.

-Steve

dtbog · #3 12-12-2004, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
when he isn't the combination of bad beats and bad play on his part could bankrupt him sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, this screams "combination hand". You said he was ice cold tonight... tilt can make a player overvalue all sorts of possible "outs". I would put him on two broadway cards, with a single club - either he has a pair and a flush draw, or a gutshot and a flush draw.

When he raises to $200, he's keeping in mind the fact that you won't back your stack with TPTK, so maybe he's hoping you lay it down here? I like his play there, actually - it sounds like he has a lot of folding equity, especially if he thinks you might be making a position bet.

But... he doesn't have folding equity, because you flopped a flush. I like your play, and I imagine he probably folded to the push. (unless he's on tilt and called with his flush draw.)

-DB

dtbog · #4 12-12-2004, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most likely your opponent has AxK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or a hand like AQ or a set that he wants to take down right away before any draws hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he wants to take it down right away, though, does he check-raise this flop?

It seems to me that if the villain had a hand as strong as AQ or a set, he would bet out here. This accomplishes two purposes -- first, he doesn't face the risk of the hero checking behind and taking a free card, and second, it's cheaper to find out if the hero has the flush.

If villain bets strong with AQ or a set, and hero makes a substantial raise, villain can get away from the hand with only his initial bet in the pot. The check-raise/reraise seems far more expensive -- which is why I would think that the villain has a weaker hand and tried a check-raise semi-bluff on our hero.

-DB

SpaceAce · #5 12-12-2004, 07:27 PM

The thing that sucks about this hand is that you're either going to win ~$200 or lose your entire stack. Against an opponent who really knows you, you're not getting another penny unless you are beaten. I think all-in n the flop is your only real choice.

SpaceAce

coltrane · #6 12-12-2004, 07:27 PM

with $1200 behind and position on the SB, I smooth call the flop, let him lead into me on the turn and pop it there....

SpaceAce · #7 12-12-2004, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
with $1200 behind and position on the SB, I smooth call the flop, let him lead into me on the turn and pop it there....

[/ QUOTE ]

The hero only has $600.

SpaceAce

TheWorstPlayer · #8 12-12-2004, 07:35 PM

I'm sure he defend himself, but . . .

[ QUOTE ]
How is this played when I have 1200 behind and he has me covered and/or against an unknown player? For the 1200, do I raise to 500 and try and get a free turn/river, wanting to see a showdown if the board doesn't pair/another club hit?

[/ QUOTE ]

SpaceAce · #9 12-12-2004, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure he defend himself, but . . .

[ QUOTE ]
How is this played when I have 1200 behind and he has me covered and/or against an unknown player? For the 1200, do I raise to 500 and try and get a free turn/river, wanting to see a showdown if the board doesn't pair/another club hit?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake, I didn't notice that he had asked about $1,200 specifically.

SpaceAce

AZK · #10 12-12-2004, 09:18 PM

SB mucked and showed an ace, he later told me had AQ. He said he thought I was just trying to protect my preflop raise when I first bet, but figured me for a set or better when I came over the top all in. Pretty interesting.

As for the 1200 question, I was just using this number as an example for how to play this hand when you have a deep stack, that's all I was curious about. Thanks for the responses. I pretty much narrowed him down to either an Ace with a club, or two pair, I didn't really put him on a set, he would have reraised preflop with AA, QQ, and he would have insta-called with 33. Hands that he could have definitely had would be something like KJc KQ, AQ, AJ, these were hands I was worried about because he tends to call raises with dominated hands and I would definitely be worried about him calling if he had 1 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] because I think he would have gambled. I realize I'm ahead, but I still don't want him to call my all-in...Is this wrong?