Can't get out of the starting gate (long and l/c)

[wulfheir]

I have been reloading 50 and 100 dollars at stars and party since last october or november. I have been studying this forum, reviewing my hand histories after tourneys, really working on my game. When I read and analyze hands people post, it's usually the same as many others responses.

But I've gone thru 4 or 500 dollars and can't seem to get any nice string of games together. The biggest my BR has hit, is probably $150. Perhaps (I hope) my only major problem has been BR management. The most I've started with at Stars is 50 (to play $5.50 SnG), and 100 at Party (to play $11). I have never gone more than 180 tournaments on one deposit, without busting.

I've been wanting to get additional resources like Harrington on Hold'em and Eastbay's Tools. However, I may have this catch-22 thing going. I feel like I should buy these out of my bankroll, once I turn a profit enough to afford it. After all, Party's $11 are supposed to be crushable in your sleep. But maybe there is enough to learn in HoH and SGA that will turn my ROI from - to +.

Where do I go from here? I enjoy poker, I love the intracacies, I do well at home games. But I can't seem to get out of the starting block, and it's frustrating to go thru the logs and tell myself, "well, I got my money in with the best of it, that's variance.". Tired of telling myself, "You ran into a monster on the bubble, expect it to happen." Tired of telling myself, "You're bust again because you didn't properly bankroll yourself with 30xBuy-in.".

Reading other beginners posts about turning their first $50 into $1000 gives me encouragement that there are other dedicated newbies succeeding, but I can't seem to get out of the gates.

I look at my ROI over 1 particular 180-game period of 1%, and remind myself that my sample size is small, and have read about swings much greater than mine over the same period on this forum.

So, as I step away from real money online poker to rethink things and get a proper initial BR (and purchase some more poker resources); I'm left wondering if I'm simply not a winning player, if I've shot myself in the foot with my inadequate BR, or I'm victim of variance.

Am I the only newb, who has studied and worked on his game as much as me who simply can't get out of the starting gate? If so, I don't see them posting anywhere.

If anyone has any advice to offer as to where I go from here, I'm as open to input as I am about my experience.

[pergesu]

POST HANDS

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
The most I've started with at Stars is 50 (to play $5.50 SnG), and 100 at Party (to play $11).

[/ QUOTE ]

your definitely starting with a small bankroll - is it possible that your fear of losing 10 buyins is making you too timid on the bubble? just guessing.

[ QUOTE ]
Reading other beginners posts about turning their first $50 into $1000 gives me encouragement that there are other dedicated newbies succeeding, but I can't seem to get out of the gates.

[/ QUOTE ]

don't believe the hype. sure, some people are turning 50 to 1000, BUT all of the people (except you) who turn 50 into zero don't post. there is some serious selection bias in who actually bothers to post their results, so don't think that everyone but you is smoking these things at a 40% ROI and that you're doing something wrong.

anyway, many people will tell you this but you need to post hands to get advice if you are worried about a hole in your game. it's just impossible to harvest useful advice with a general email like this.

regards.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been reloading 50 and 100. Perhaps (I hope) my only major problem has been BR management . . . tired of telling myself, "You're bust again because you didn't properly bankroll yourself with 30xBuy-in.".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but your bankroll management skills have been fine. It doesn't make a difference that you deposit money on multiple occasions. You have been playing the lowest buy-ins possible (except for Party $5 + $1, which you never want to do because of the rake). You've deposited $500 dollars (whether in one shot or four different shots is irrelevant), and you've lost it all playing $5.50 and $11 SnGs. In other words, you've dropped between 60 - 70 buy-ins at the most beatable SnGs that exist.

The harsh reality: you are a losing player. The good news: you've found this site. You can become a winning player if you post hands and listen to the criticism without defensiveness. It's up to you as to whether your ego is strong enough to take it, and whether you are dedicated enough to put in the time and effort to become a winning player.

[MrTrik]

I'm about break even at low limits. If you don't count expenses, books and things like PT, I'm a tad bit above water.

FWIW: I'd never attempt this BR management ... "100 at Party (to play $11)" . With the inevitable swings you are dead before you start.

[the_joker]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been wanting to get additional resources like Harrington on Hold'em and Eastbay's Tools.

[/ QUOTE ]

They will pay for themselves quickly. HOH2 is out now as well - it rocks.

Also, you may want to play lower limits like $2 SNG until you know you are a winning player. No need to get an expensive education when there are micro limit SNG's to play.

[pergesu]

I doubt micro limit SNGs will teach him anything. My friend and I like to get way drunk and/or stoned, then have a competition to see who can do better over 10 SNGs by pushing every single hand. Makes for some good fun, but we see absolutely atrocious play. Seems like every player at the table is doing the same challenge we are.

Stick with the $5+.50s. The play there is atrocious, but at least the players are actually playing.

OP's best bet is to pick up HOH (both volumes), and post a LOT of hands. I posted all kinds of stupid hands when I started, and most of the hands I still post are pretty obvious to most people. Can't find errors in your game until you look for them.

[the_joker]

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I doubt micro limit SNGs will teach him anything.

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I agree, but the dude has lost $500 which based on the post seems like a lot of money to him. If you're not beating the limit you're playing at the only obvious course of action is to move down unless you don't care about losing money.

[pergesu]

So he should do play money SNGs or find a new hobby.

[wulfheir]

$500 over 7 months isn't a lot of money to me. I have other hobbies that require more money, like golf and drinking (no, i don't play poker drunk).

This is less a money thing, and more a success thing. I want to become good at it, I want to win, and I want to measure it. The most obvious measurement of success is my BR, unless I'm mistaken, which I could very well be.