Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River

[mts]

push allin obviously, not that it value bets but it gets a few hands that would have us beat that would like to check it down to fold. And all the other pair + straight draw hands that we might chop or beat. Plus, its nice not showing down a hand... i hate showing my hands. I dont think he has a hand where he check/calls and we lose.

this is extremely poorly worded. someone help me with my points? lol

[grandgnu]

Hmmm......an interesting situation. Villian has been betting the whole way, now he's checking? My first instinct was to check behind and hope for the best.

But, since he's been betting the whole way and we've been calling, why all of a sudden the check? Is he figuring we'll sense weakness and push all-in here, so he can trap us with the nuts?

If Villian is on A/K or Q/10, the Jack on the river would have certainly scared him, especially with how we've played the hand. As such, he MIGHT fold to our push, allowing us to scoop a pot that we either would've split or lost completely.

But then again, we still have enough chips at this blind level that if we check and lose, we can continue playing on.

So you have to consider that the pot is huge and there's something to be said for getting all those chips and increasing our stack.

But, if we push and get called and lose, then we're out of the tournament and we can't have any further opportunities to continue on.

While it could be a trap, I honestly believe our opponent is scared of the Jack and the diamond on the river. So a push is our best option to take it down against hands that might tie or beat us.

But for those who wish to survive, checking behind and hoping we're ahead of a weaker Ace isn't terrible, it keeps us in the game.

I think we should push all in here. We've shown plenty of willingness to call down so it's most likely that a straight or FH would've pushed on the river expecting us to call. Unless villian has a straight and is afraid of the FH & flush draws but that seems unlikely.

With the river check, I'm certain we're either ahead here or tied. AQ, AT, KQ are possible holdings, but I think it's more likely that the villain has AK also.

If we check here, we either win the pot or chop it. If we push, we have a better chance at taking down the whole pot. So I think we should push.

[juris]

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Ok maybe it sucked, but Gigabet played every street completely different than almost every pro here would have played it. Either Giga played it like a moron, or it's at least somewhat interesting.

Stop insulting the hand for being boring and at least insult Gigabet for playing it strangely or something, which is what everyone is basically doing when they say this hand is boring and obvious and have suggested a different course of action than the hero on every street.

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Thank you. I've been biting my tounge but what you have said is so right on. The reality is that Gigabet is one of the top players around (not just in 2+2 but anywhere). The fact that this hand was played so differently than what most people recommend should suggest that there is something more to it. Perhaps, just perhaps, there are alternative ways to playing (and thinking about) what many people consider a routine hand.

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Lloyd you don't get enough credit for this idea and your efforts. Kudos and keep it up. I am always intrigued more by plays that go against what seems common sense. It is the best way to help me actually (GASP) think about my game.

[CardSharpCook]

Ok, put yourself in villian's shoes. What hands are you calling with on the river? Personally, I am calling with any ace given that I'll have AAJJK. I am folding every other pair. What hands am I checking? Well, I'm not checking if I have 3 of a kind or more. Why? Because if Hero has a hand better than 3of a kind, he WILL go AI if I check, but he has to call with a couple hands less than 3ok. However, I am not all villians. Many villians are checking here with 3ok because they just made their hand after bluffing the whole way. All of a sudden they need to reevaluate whether or not 3ok is a good hand. I mean, what has hero been calling with? He's gotta be thinking, "ok, either Gigabet just made his boat, or he's got nothing." Now, if he thinks this through, he bets it. But checking the jack is a natural impulse for many players. I said it earlier, but no one noticed or commented, and I think it merits thought. The risk/reward just isn't right. The risk is your last 1K chips. The reward is a 22% gain in chips. That is not a good deal.

[Ryendal]

Curtain's line

[rbenuck4]

I think this is a clear check. The pot is big enough right now and if this was a ring game, then there might be a value bet that we should discuss, but since this is a tournament and the chips you win are less important than the chips you lose, I think it is imperative to save your last T1000 just in case villain does have you beat. Bringing your stack up to 5500 instead of 4500 is not as important as staying alive, especially since the blinds are still relatively low and even if you lose this hand you still have ok chips.

In addition, there are very few hands that you have beat where he will call you (Ax is the only one that comes to mind), however there are a lot of hands that have you beat at this point (Q10, any jack, any two diamonds). My guess is that we are splitting this pot with villain as it looks like he has AK and that Jd scared him just as much as it should scare us. However, there is no need to bet anything here because he is calling anyway with AK (pot is too big) and obviously calling with anything better than that.

[SCfuji]

thats what i wanted to do [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. pots big enough.

[fnurt]

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No halfway reasonable opponent would check the river to induce a bet when you have 900 chips left and the pot contains about 3500-4000!!

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I have to agree with this. Despite the fact that the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] completes a lot of hands, it's really hard to imagine him checking any of them.

I check, per FTOP...if you bet and are beat he will call, if you are ahead he will fold.