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#1
09-26-2005, 09:47 PM
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Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
1. The universe is an illusion
For most of us this is simple so we'll move on. 2. The universe was self created or created by Chance This term (self created) is analytically false. If something created itself from nothing, that would imply it was both something and nothing at the same time in the same relationship- nothing can create itself.It would have to be before it was. A coin has a 50% chance of coming up heads when flipped. Chance is just that- a mathematical probability that something can happen. The pressure of my thumb when I flipped it, how I caught it etc. caused it to come up heads or tales. Chance has no power . Chance is not a thing . Chance exerts no force . 3. The universe is self existent and eternal. Everything we know points away from this. Today this is pretty much a non-argument. 4. The universe was created by something that is infinite, and eternal From my stance this makes the most sense. I think these are the only 4 possibilities, as others would more than likely be a derivative of the above. I'm sure some will agree with me, but more will think I'm way off base here. I'd like to hear some of both. Jeff 
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#2
09-26-2005, 11:10 PM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
What about:
5. We don't know what happened yet, maybe someday we will, maybe it's beyond our ability to discover. From my stance, this is the only thing that makes sense.
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#3
09-27-2005, 12:53 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
[ QUOTE ]
What about: 5. We don't know what happened yet, maybe someday we will, maybe it's beyond our ability to discover. From my stance, this is the only thing that makes sense. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. It's akin to when humanity still believed the Earth was the center of the universe when we didn't yet have the means to think otherwise. Our understanding of the cosmos is still in such a primitive state it's quite ridiculous to make any definitive conclusions from the data.
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#4
09-27-2005, 01:23 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
You missed one.
5. The reason for our universe’s existence is currently beyond our ability to comprehend. (Personaly I think this is the most likly explanation.) Missing that one is typical human arrogance. That’s all assuming the question makes sense of course.
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#5
09-27-2005, 01:36 AM
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Who or what created .....
<font color="red"> 4. The universe was created by something that is infinite, and eternal
</font> Gee - I wonder what that 'something that is infinite, and eternal' could be. Who or what created that 'something that is infinite, and eternal'?
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#6
09-27-2005, 01:48 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
[ QUOTE ]
3. The universe is self existent and eternal. Everything we know points away from this. Today this is pretty much a non-argument. [/ QUOTE ] You are mistaken if you believe the Big Bang theory disproves this view of the universe. Conveniently, #3 is also the best argument against your theistic view.
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#8
09-27-2005, 09:28 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 3. The universe is self existent and eternal. Everything we know points away from this. Today this is pretty much a non-argument. [/ QUOTE ] You are mistaken if you believe the Big Bang theory disproves this view of the universe. Conveniently, #3 is also the best argument against your theistic view. [/ QUOTE ] Nuclear Fusion.
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#9
09-27-2005, 09:59 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
About your number 3, the one you say is disproven
So far, the only thing that has been shown not to be eternal is the part of Universe which is available to our observation. There is a big jump from saying that whatever we can observe appears not to be eternal to your number 4 which is not at all supported by observation
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#10
09-27-2005, 10:46 AM
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Re: Four Possibilities For Our Universes\' Existence
I love it when someone makes one of these posts. I am now convinced that there must be a pro-God site somewhere showing people how to make this moronic arguement. It just shows up too often and is so stupid that I would lose my faith in humanity if I believed so many people came up with it independently. This argument is begging the question and totally worthless. Of course you miss the option that makes the most sense: In a higher dimensional space, the universe is a chicken turd and was created when a finite and non eternal but higher dimesional chicken had to defecate. Any one that has tried to clean up bird crap will verify that something that is not eternal can create long lasting things. (I just couldn't work in a chicken overlord, but I tried).
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