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#122
10-12-2005, 01:37 AM
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Re: Simple question
[ QUOTE ]
"What is the EV of non belief? If you are right, so what? If you are wrong, you are screwed. So you will lose the most, and gain the least by non belief, and gain the most and lose the least by belief" Although I have decided to stay away from most God arguments nowadays, the nature of this website forces me to refute this particular one. And I should note that many religious people including Not Ready agree with me here. The notion that you are getting high pot odds when you profess belief that Jesus is the son of God is just wrong. The two main reasons are: 1. It is not clear that the upside is way more than the downside. If, for instance, the God that Jews believe, in is the true one, and if he is angry at those who believe in a fraudelant messiah, we're talking reverse implied odds here. 2. A professed belief based on high pot odds is not a real belief and your hand even if it is the best one, will be declared dead, and thus can't win the pot. [/ QUOTE ] First off, the privilege to banter with Sklansky is a honor. That said, I think he made some good points, but missed some as well. I don't profess high pot odds when professing Jesus is Lord. I am comparing: Non-belief as Policy vs. Belief as Alternative Worth Perusing. (If you are a believer in something else…this isn’t intended to persuade you. PM me and I will get more detailed about how God “showed himself to me”.) If you pursue, who have nothing to lose (unless you find the wrong messiah as D.S. points out, but we haven’t lost any ground in that scenario – remember you are a non believer to start with). You potentially have a great deal to gain by giving it a go. +EV If you refuse, you gain saved effort, and stand to lose a lot if you were wrong.-EV This argument is intended to force your hand, and should piss you off. I rebelled against it, decided I would make my stand against it. That was a useless decision that I can honestly look back on and say…that’s your version of making a stand? If anyone wants to make a real stand against God they know how to do it! Not showing up for songs and prayers and talking down to Christians as if they don’t understand science is not rebellious, it is a waste of time. Christians do a good enough job looking stupid, just like everybody else. Your second point is right on target. Understanding that genuinely giving yourself over to God is a smart decision (and one you could back out of…just throwing that out), but it is not enough. You must actually do it.. You give God your “hand” to do what he pleases and you will find that you have not “lost the pot.” Christians as a group are just as representational in our problems as the rest of society…it is not a cure or an instant angel maker. It is a path. Sometimes you will stray from the path, and wish you hadn’t. But the path leads to personal and spiritual growth, and an understanding of ourselves from a perspective much larger than our own. When we see ourselves as God sees us, we can begin to see how He sees others, and we start to feel bad for flippin em the bird, so we vow to try to cut down….God is at work and the life you use to live is going if not gone. I am not going to lie, I spend way too much time trying to enhance my personal short term life and very little preparing for eternity. I equate it to pimping out your courtesy car while your Escalade is on back order. Please try to remember that you will not find proof that faith works without trying it. Just as I can assure you that peanut butter on French toast, with hot maple syrup is the best damn food item on the planet…you will never know for sure, regardless of the testimonies I line up, that it is really all that. You gonna Google it? Browse through yummy stuff Iverified.com? NO! Go try it. PM me. Happy to testify to the things I have seen…be warned because I was very different. 
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