Brilliant or FPS?

Ghazban · #1 10-21-2005, 09:58 PM

Villain is one of those crazy LAGtastic swedes. Last orbit, I openraised from the SB, he called, I check/raised a TT5r flop (he took a long time to call that), the 7 turn was checked through and I check/folded an ace on the river. He's a regular in the game and probably sees me as a bit tight but occasionally wildly aggressive with nothing. He definitely prefers betting and raising to calling on all streets.

Party Poker (skins) No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

MP ($413.85)
Button ($156.05)
Hero ($200)
BB ($403)
UTG ($0)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero (poster) raises to $6, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($12) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls $10.

Turn: ($32) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($32) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $50, BB calls $40.

Final Pot: $132

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Js (full house, jacks full of fives).
BB has Ks Th (two pair, tens and fives).
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $132.

TrailofTears · #2 10-21-2005, 09:59 PM

I think you can get more money in faster by not playing it like this.

-T

Ghazban · #3 10-21-2005, 10:01 PM

Given that he had a ten, sure, but his flop call in no way indicates that is the case.

Bukem_ · #4 10-21-2005, 10:07 PM

I like $25 on the turn.

I burned a ton on money the other day when I checked a turn with similar action.

TrailofTears · #5 10-21-2005, 10:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given that he had a ten, sure, but his flop call in no way indicates that is the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadn't read the results. Regardless, what hand is calling on a dry flop like that, but folding to a bet because of a J on the turn. If anything, TJ is the most likely hand he could have (obviously not as much since you have JJ - I'm aware), but I don't think this card will scare him out of a call. If it does, then how do you figure your CR on the river would have gotten more out of him?

-T

savman · #6 10-21-2005, 10:11 PM

i like it. given his perception of you and prior history his flop calling range includes MANY relatively weak holdings and if u are not regularly loading it up on all three streets then your line is fine, especially if he is a winning player in the game. against a LAG donk no FPS, just shovel money in the pot.

orange · #7 10-21-2005, 10:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like $25 on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ghazban · #8 10-21-2005, 10:24 PM

The checkraise doesn't necessarily get any more out of him but it does give him a chance to bluff. With a weaker hand, I would certainly check/call but this holding is strong enough that I might even get a call from a worse hand if I check/raise.

As for hands that call flop, check turn, and bet river, I'd say a whole lot of pocket pairs fit that description. However, I don't think a small pair calls both the flop and turn if I fire again.

TrailofTears · #9 10-21-2005, 10:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this holding is strong enough that I might even get a call from a worse hand if I check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this. Please explain.

And I can accept that some PP's will drop to a turn bet, but I think that would be more likely if the turn is an A or K. I guess I just don't like the river CR. Why not lead the river? I think you will get a call from the same hands that would make the bluff, but you might get more out of them, since I think most players fold to the river CR.

I think raise PF, bet flop, check turn, bet river looks more like AK.

-T

Go_Blue88 · #10 10-21-2005, 10:35 PM

I'm not sure what FPS means, but I like your line. However, I prefer leading the turn as if you c/c lead the river, that would show too much strength. If you c/r the turn, that also screams strength.

I like leading the turn and betting half the pot on the river hoping that Villian will make a play on me.