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#41
08-22-2005, 04:14 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ultra loose tables; Yes. Huge pots; Not necessarily, but I notice that Actionbob value bets and checks better than most. ~stephen [/ QUOTE ] This still doesn't fully explain the relationship between his low W$SF yet his extremely high WR. A simple example. Let's say person X wins 10 more pots out of every 100 flops seen than Bob. With an average pot of around $420, that's $4200 extra that person wins or 70BB's. Now, for arguments sake, we could probably even cut that number down, let's say even in half. So say person X is winning 35BB's more every 100 pots he sees than Bob, so Bob must be at least 1BB more for every pot he wins to compensate for this. Since a large part of the action at 30/60 are HU or 3 way pots in which you are value betting with position, it's hard to really extract any more money on those hands other than to just keep betting the best hand. I'm having a hard time understanding how it's possible to pick up so many extra bets to achieve such a high WR while winning so few flops seen. I'm not sure I'm making any sense, but I'm hoping someone can walk me through this. Also, Barron, sorry to hijack your thread here, although it's kind of all related. Nigel [/ QUOTE ] this is kinda odd to me too b/c despite what looks like a "high" won$when saw flop for me...my overall won $wsf is about 42 (41.83). -Barron 
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#42
08-22-2005, 04:19 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
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actionbob was the one with 4bb/hd aa and 3bb/hd kk right? that should do it right there. [/ QUOTE ] I think that was a pretty old discussion from a while back and those were numbers from and old 15-30 database. FWIW, the AA and KK numbers from this 30-60 database are 3.47 and 2.28 respectively. -ActionBob
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#43
08-22-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] actionbob was the one with 4bb/hd aa and 3bb/hd kk right? that should do it right there. [/ QUOTE ] I think that was a pretty old discussion from a while back and those were numbers from and old 15-30 database. FWIW, the AA and KK numbers from this 30-60 database are 3.47 and 2.28 respectively. -ActionBob [/ QUOTE ] Those numbers are significantly higher than mine, but I play short handed. Mine are 2.42 and 1.85 respectively. Perhaps I am playing them poorly. What effect would a higher AA and KK have on my overall winrate?
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#44
08-22-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
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What effect would a higher AA and KK have on my overall winrate? [/ QUOTE ] look at your profits for a given month, then add up your profits for aces and kings for that month... getting 1bb/hd more, even if it's for a "rare" hand like a pocket pair, is signifigant. you get each one every 220 hands. how many hands do you play per hour?
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#45
08-22-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
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[ QUOTE ] What effect would a higher AA and KK have on my overall winrate? [/ QUOTE ] look at your profits for a given month, then add up your profits for aces and kings for that month... getting 1bb/hd more, even if it's for a "rare" hand like a pocket pair, is signifigant. you get each one every 220 hands. how many hands do you play per hour? [/ QUOTE ] His BB/100 will be 1.5 greater than mine just based on the AA/KK stats, from my calculations. Damn, that's a lot. I play close to 360 hands an hour, so he's getting 5.4BB/hour extra. Damn, that's a lot. I need to work on my play. Or my luck.
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#46
08-22-2005, 10:53 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What effect would a higher AA and KK have on my overall winrate? [/ QUOTE ] look at your profits for a given month, then add up your profits for aces and kings for that month... getting 1bb/hd more, even if it's for a "rare" hand like a pocket pair, is signifigant. you get each one every 220 hands. how many hands do you play per hour? [/ QUOTE ] His BB/100 will be 1.5 greater than mine just based on the AA/KK stats, from my calculations. Damn, that's a lot. I play close to 360 hands an hour, so he's getting 5.4BB/hour extra. Damn, that's a lot. I need to work on my play. Or my luck. [/ QUOTE ] You'll have smaller winrates with big pairs playing shorthanded because there's typically less opponents in the pot.
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#47
08-22-2005, 11:07 PM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
Running well? LOL. Yeah, for the last 6 years he's been "running well."
I've known ActionBob for about 6 years now and I don't think I've even known him to tilt (well once when we were blind raising in the pink game and I managed to take a rack from him, but I digress), get out of hand while in a pot, or not know the correct odds for any situation. Basically, he's just the epitome of all that is solid. He's surely not going to argue that limping utg with 24 suited is correct in certain games like someone that posts here has argued with him. ~stephen ps. My AA and KK numbers are 3.65 and 2.42 respectively.
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#48
08-23-2005, 01:11 AM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
[ QUOTE ]
Running well? LOL. Yeah, for the last 6 years he's been "running well." I've known ActionBob for about 6 years now and I don't think I've even known him to tilt (well once when we were blind raising in the pink game and I managed to take a rack from him, but I digress), get out of hand while in a pot, or not know the correct odds for any situation. Basically, he's just the epitome of all that is solid. He's surely not going to argue that limping utg with 24 suited is correct in certain games like someone that posts here has argued with him. ~stephen ps. My AA and KK numbers are 3.65 and 2.42 respectively. [/ QUOTE ] Buckshot, I think you are responding to the wrong poster. I never suggested that it was a case of just running well. I suspect that he is doing something with his play that is very, very solid and different from most players. What I don't understand though is this: If his post flop play is good enough to acheive such incredible win rates in the 15 and 30 (4BB and 3BB/100 respectively), why is he not winning more pots (he's 5-10% fewer than most other's W$SF) as a byproduct of such great play and great handreading? He is clearly giving something up somewhere along the line, but seemingly gaining something more overall by doing so. So basically, I am really trying to understand his style - if it can be put in to words - and learn something here. Nigel PS. Your AA/KK numbers are fantastic (as it sounds like Bob's are as well). Over what sample size are you guys running high 3's?
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#49
08-23-2005, 08:51 AM
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Re: More position stats for comparison and analysis
I really wasn't making any accusations. I was just laughing out loud at the comment.
I'm not saying I'm intimate with Actionbob (although there was that one time in Vegas...right off the strip...) to know why his WR is phenomenal, but I don't think it's something fancy or complicated. He could probably elaborate more but I think it's what I attributed earlier about his play in general. He plays ABC, picks great games and doesn't tilt. The latter is probably the key point, I mean, I've raised utg with 46s before, but Actionbob wouldn't. But then again I'm a fishee so. Now if he could only drive the ball more than 175 yards he'd be the complete package. ~stephen ps. My sample size is 82k
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#50
08-23-2005, 12:04 PM
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Re: Position stat page...
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[ QUOTE ] good job hiding your screen name, we'll never be able to figure it out... [/ QUOTE ] have you seen fguritout at the 30 games?? -Barron [/ QUOTE ] fair enough, but if you're going to white the name out from the side, why not white it out at the bottom? that's all I'm saying [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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