kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop

[xorbie]

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From the way you've described the fellow, you must expect to be ahead of him.

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Why? 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is only like a 60/40 dog here. There is no reason wathsoever to expect to be ahead. If hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I would be all over this too. But really, this is the worst ever flop.

[tewall]

I disagree that this is a bad flop. The chance of hero being behind is very small, given the range of hands villain will play. It's probably better than 4 to 1 that hero is ahead. If an Ace had flopped, that would be a bad flop, but this is a good flop. It's a flop where hero is likely to get action from a hand who he is favored against, as there are all sort of draws out there. Hero wants action, so he should bet. There's a good chance villian will go over the top with a draw, so give him the chance to do so.

[xorbie]

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I disagree that this is a bad flop. The chance of hero being behind is very small, given the range of hands villain will play. It's probably better than 4 to 1 that hero is ahead. If an Ace had flopped, that would be a bad flop, but this is a good flop.

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Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first.

[Rococo]

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Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first.

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You obviously are correct Xorbie, but I do have one quibble. Villain can't put Hero on a black overpair. Put another way, Villain doesn't know that Hero doesn't have a better heart. I wouldn't be anxious to get it all in here with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Would you?

[flawless_victory]

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I disagree that this is a bad flop. The chance of hero being behind is very small, given the range of hands villain will play. It's probably better than 4 to 1 that hero is ahead. If an Ace had flopped, that would be a bad flop, but this is a good flop. It's a flop where hero is likely to get action from a hand who he is favored against, as there are all sort of draws out there. Hero wants action, so he should bet. There's a good chance villian will go over the top with a draw, so give him the chance to do so.

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give me a break... this a good flop?
LLLLOOOOLLLL. you cannot be this stupid.

yo creed/ check it.

[tewall]

You need to take more things in consideration when the flop comes than, "Oh no, that looks scary!". It's true that there are some made hands that could have you crushed, but the chances of Villain having a drawing hand against which you are a favorite are much greater than his having a hand that has you beat. A good flop is a flop where you get action when you are ahead. That's likely to be the case here.

[Fnord]

This is out of my league, but as a small stakes NLHE and LHE player, must I point out the pot size relative to the money behind? Just about any bet ties us to the pot. Even if we're a 60/40ish dog it's not that big of a mistake. The variance sucks, but that's the price for playing against these ATM machines.

Checking behind sucks because he probably doesn't have a heart and one is slightly more likely to turn if he doesn't have it.

There is a lot of money out there, you probably have the best hand and he will often have no heart.

Push.

[xorbie]

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This is out of my league, but as a small stakes NLHE and LHE player, must I point out the pot size relative to the money behind? Just about any bet ties us to the pot. Even if we're a 60/40ish dog it's not that big of a mistake. The variance sucks, but that's the price for playing against these ATM machines.

Checking behind sucks because he probably doesn't have a heart and one is slightly more likely to turn if he doesn't have it.

Push.

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Push is terrible. I'd much rather check and let him bluff the turn if I want to get it all in here.

[Fnord]

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Push is terrible. I'd much rather check and let him bluff the turn if I want to get it all in here.

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Are we in a spot to call a bluff? There are a lot of non-heart hands he could have and improve with that he might fold to a push. If a heart hits would you consider calling?

When the pot is big I want to maximize my chances of winning it.

If he wants action, he's going to get unlimited action from my KK if over 18% of his stack goes in pre-flop.

[Garland]

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He's also eager to play me since I got most of his stack five minutes before by calling a monster turn raise with just a weak flush draw, which came in

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May I ask why?

Garland