AKs and an unorthodox play

[Lmn55d]

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If an unpaired nonace-high flush draw is going to raise the turn and bluff the river but he'll fold the river UI when you 3-bet, you make less money 3-betting the turn?

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If you 3bet and he folds the river when he misses he puts in 3 bets on the turn and river combined.

If you call the turn and he bluffs when he misses he puts 3 bets in on the turn and river combined.

It's the same. Except that he is sometimes going to hit on the river and his bet will be a value bet which is an argument for 3betting the turn.

[brazilio]

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If an unpaired nonace-high flush draw is going to raise the turn and bluff the river but he'll fold the river UI when you 3-bet, you make less money 3-betting the turn?

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If you 3bet and he folds the river when he misses he puts in 3 bets on the turn and river combined.

If you call the turn and he bluffs when he misses he puts 3 bets in on the turn and river combined.

It's the same. Except that he is sometimes going to hit on the river and his bet will be a value bet which is an argument for 3betting the turn.

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If you know he's going to bluff the river when his draw doesn't hit, you're making 3BB - .6. If you 3-bet the turn and he folds the river UI with a flush draw you're making the same only you'll either bet/fold or bet/call the river. Either way his contribution is the same, but you win the same and lose less if you just call the turn raise. Isn't this right?

[Lmn55d]

ok I think I see your point. If his range is ONLY flush draws and we know he will bluff the river 100% of the time when he misses, we should call the turn raise and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold the rest. That is true.

EDIT: Wait. No it's not...why wouldn't we just 3bet the turn and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold a spade. Wouldn't he bluff here too if he'd bluff 100% in the other situaiton? lol. We'd make more this way.

[brazilio]

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ok I think I see your point. If his range is ONLY flush draws and we know he will bluff the river 100% of the time when he misses, we should call the turn raise and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold the rest. That is true.

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He'll never be on the flush draw 100% of the time though, so maybe that's all crap. That's why I figured donking the river after calling the turn raise was a pretty good medium between free showdowns, weaker kings, and the flush draw. mebbe

man, I dunno if he'll bluff a non-spade river if you 3-bet, that line is so bizarro

[Lmn55d]

uh if his range is free showdowns, weaker kigns, and flush draws, 3betting the turn and leading the river is way better. Especially considering most guys who make a "free" showdown raise don't fold to the river donk or turn 3bet.

[brazilio]

k thx