Why do people love israel so much??

[theweatherman]

Seriously, why do people have such strong feelings towards Israel?

Israel was created only 60 years ago, and yet many people talk about itas if it has always existed. The terms of it's inception are similar to the Indians taking back a chunk of the US because they lived there once. Why do the Jews deserve their own state at all? The Palestinians dont have their own state, the Catholics dont have their own state, the kurds dont have their own state, etc. What makes the Jews sospecial that they get their own country adn allowed to rule over a people who were already living there. Makes no sense.

[El Barto]

Because they are vunerable and under attack?

I think we Americans loved the Brits in 1940 for the same reason.

they are only under attack because they insist on continuing their occupation of territory, as well as keeping their state.

[Olof]

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they are only under attack because they insist on continuing their occupation of territory,

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Yes, before the occupation they were left alone.

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as well as keeping their state.

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You seem to imply that they shouldn't be allowed to keep it.

[BCPVP]

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Why do the Jews deserve their own state at all? The Palestinians dont have their own state, the Catholics dont have their own state, the kurds dont have their own state, etc.

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Why do we deserve America? We kicked out/pushed back/killed the previous inhabitants. Maybe we should all hop back on the ships and sail back to where our ancestors were from?

Why does anyone deserve to live where they do?

I agree, but that was a different time. It doesnt justify our destruction of many cultures but then it wasnt frowned upon so much. In the modern era these actions are illegal, the world knows better and did know better in the 1940's.

[Olof]

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Seriously, why do people have such strong feelings towards Israel?

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Actually, you seem to hold stronger feelings about Israel than most people here. Why is that?

[MMMMMM]

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Israel was created only 60 years ago, and yet many people talk about itas if it has always existed. The terms of it's inception are similar to the Indians taking back a chunk of the US because they lived there once. Why do the Jews deserve their own state at all? The Palestinians dont have their own state, the Catholics dont have their own state, the kurds dont have their own state, etc. What makes the Jews sospecial that they get their own country adn allowed to rule over a people who were already living there. Makes no sense.

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If the United States were STILL TODAY gravely mistreating Native Americans, then I would think that Native Americans would deserve the option to have their own state or more. Similarly for American blacks. Thankfully, neither group is systematically being mistreated today.

Much of the world--Europe, Russia, and the Middle East-- mistreated the Jews and discriminated against them for many centuries. After the holocaust, the U.N. came to the arrangement that the Jews would get land for a state. Both Jews and Arabs lived on that land at the time.

If the world didn't long mistreat the Jews so severely, I would not think they would need their own state. But the world did so mistreat them, and so too did the Arabs. And a great many Arabs and Persians still today hold vast prejudice against the Jews, and would mistreat them OR WORSE given the chance. The Jews need a place of their own as a refuge or sanctuary from the ignorant, stupid, brutal and aggressive world outside--which in many places wants to systematically mistreat, subjugate, and eliminate the Jews--or at minimum to treat them legally as second-class citizens (much of the Middle East has laws that Jews and Gentiles do not get the same rights that Muslims do, and do not get full legal status as human beings; but their deepest hatreds are reserved for the Jews).

Yes, it must have sucked to be a displaced Palestinian originally, but they should have moved on by now--just like every other displaced people throughout history has moved on. It IS possible to move on and eventually make lemonade out of lemoins, you know. Israel was created legally according to the U.N., and you can blame the other Arab countries for not helping their own brethren assimilate, and for instead using them cynically as pawns against the hated Jews.

Creating Israel was not a perfect solution, but neither would it have been a perfect solution to leave the Jews out in the cold, to be predated upon by the world, using every form of discriminatory hatred, and legally codified second-class status. It's a cruel world out there and the ignorant elements of the world picked on the Jews for so long and so hard that the more civilized world finally woke up after the holocaust and said, "Hey, these guys could really use a place of their own, a refuge--let's see what we can come up with along those lines."

That's what happened and that's why Israel, in my opinion.

The Palestinian plight, which the Palestinians themselves have exacerbated immensely and tragically, might require another thread.

[twowords]

There has been a lot of revisionist history in this thread and here's a few examples.

1. That Jews and Arabs had been living in Palestine, until finally the UN decided to give the Jews their own state.

This fails to recognize that in the Early 20th Century, Palestine was a British-controled territory consisting of a vast Arab majority. The Zionist movement convinced the British to allow huge numbers of Jewish immigrants against the will of almost the entire "Palestinian" population, while at the same promising the Arabs independence which they would never recieve.

2. It was clear that the Jews needed their own state.

Certainly not, in fact many traditional Jews did not want this and opposed the Zionist movement. The idea had support from the US leadership, but this came from sympathy for the holocost and from the domestic political boost which came from supporting a Jewish state. It did not come from a need and a calculation of the viability of such a state. Fianlly, the Jewish state was placed in a location where all its neighbors opposed it, and no reparations or agreements were ever made with those who were displaced.

3. The UN partition was fair or reasonable.

Jews, less than 1/3 of the population and owning 6% of the land, recieved 50% of Palestine including a significant % of the most fertile land. The partition vote was opposed by the rest of the region, but the vote was won through intense US lobbying, which included threats of the suspension of aide (privately by senators, justices, etc, not officially) to certain UN Security Council heads of state. The partition needed military force to impose given the fighting and terror that was already occuring, but neither Britain (who had declared it would leave Palestine to the UN) nor the US were willing to use military force to enforce it. The vote did give legitimacy in declaring Israel in 1948, and various poorly orgainized Arab states invaded to take back control of Palestine. The vote was made knowing the Arabs would never accept it and the declaration of Israel was made knowing this would prompt an Arab attack.

4. The Palestinians were displaced.

Incidents such as the Deir Yassin masscre were the efforts of Israeli terror groups (with the tacit support of the Zionist leadership) to force million of Palestinians to flee their homes as Israel took control of most of Palestine, doubling its size allotted by the UN partision. Millions of refugees were never allowed back into their homes since that would ruin the purity of Israel. Sadly, the Arab states saw the acceptance of said refugees as acceptance of Israel and refused to allow them citizenship.

5. Israel was attacked in numerous wars in last 60 years.

The major wars, 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, two began with a calculated Israeli attack, 1956 and 1967. In 1956, the US forced Israel to give up its gains taken from Egypt. In 1967, Israel occupied vast regions and it has maintained a military occupation of the West Bank (the rest of Palestine) until this day and again not allowing refugees back. The rest of the territory was given back in return for agreements of non-beligerency.

5. Israel is and has been the underdog.

Population-wise sure. But Israel had always posessed superior weapons and tactics from its western sponsors (France, and then the US). By the 1960s, Israel was the superpower of the area and US intelliegence predicted it would win in a war versus all of its neighbors. Since then it has steadily increased its military superiority. The underdogs of the last 50 years have been the Palestinians.

Anyhoo, support Israel all you want (and we, the US, certainly do) but history is history and you can't change it.

[ansky451]

All your points are "valid," however there are some key factual errors. There are millions of Palestinians today, but at the time of the creation of Israel the number was several hundred thousand. They multiplied. To say that millions were displaced from their homes, is a lie.

Not all Palestinians were forced to leave. In fact, a large portion were encouraged to leave by the prospect of a full out Arab invasion which they assumed would be successful, and then they could return to "their" land.