folding top pair on river

moodifier · #1 07-20-2005, 11:35 PM

First orbit at table plus I aint great at reading folks, I usually just try to see what hands they play and from what position.

Perhaps I shouldve raised the turn? Comments on all streets welcome.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Online247 · #2 07-20-2005, 11:38 PM

i'm contemplating a raise here preflop. Based on the flop action I wouldn't be too crazy about raising the turn w/o a read.

Did MP2 flop the straight?

nomadtla · #3 07-20-2005, 11:46 PM

*grunch*
what was your thinking on 3 beting this flop. If you had another player trapped (knew for certain 4 playesr would call your bet) then it would be a decent value bet with the added bonus of maybe giving you a free card.
Since you hit the ace I'd probably raise the turn. I think folding to 2bets on the river is fine you may have been drawing to only the flush from the begining.

moodifier · #4 07-20-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*
what was your thinking on 3 beting this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am thinking that I might be cold calling too much in situations like these. I was hoping for the free card but knew it wasn't very likely, perhaps 50/50 I get the free one or not. Basically just to get the money in while I have much the best of it with 12 outs to top pair or better.

tmoore44 · #5 07-21-2005, 12:29 AM

I like the 3 bet on the flop, but was wondering why you didn't raise the turn when you spiked your ace. Even if mp2 flopped the straight you still have outs with your nut flush draw. Worst case scenario you get 3 bet on the turn by mp2, advertising the straight, but you can still call the 3 bet with a decent draw on the river. I also think raising the turn may get you a free card on the river if you choose to take it.

irishpint · #6 07-21-2005, 12:36 AM

i'd raise the turn i think, see what happens. still might be behind JT or something tho.

Boolean · #7 07-21-2005, 12:36 AM

Grunching...

Tough hand IMO, especially without reads. This plays drastically different depending on what I know about my opponents. What I'd do if I didn't have any? I'm not sure. I don't think the way you played it was so bad. Your flop 3-bet is for value because you can often times take a free card if you miss your flush, plus you're more than likely going to be good more than your share of the time.

On the turn, the BB decides to donk-bet it again. He could have AJ, AT, 89 for the straight, a gutshot, an oesd, or two cards that he might take a liking to personally. I'd raise this because we've just hit top pair which sometimes might be good by itself.

On the river, and by the way you've played it, I think it's close. You have to be good more than 18% of the time to call this, providing that SB does not decide to 3-bet this. I'm completely boggled by MP2 right here. Without a read, I have no idea what he's holding. AT, KJ, KT, T7, or J7 are all possible holdings. If he's a LAG, I can see him holding J3s or 73s here too and using the same line. Personally, I'd just fold. I'll get to see what MP2 anyhow, and I don't see myself being good here 1 in 5 times.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I would like to know what MP2 is raising with here though.

joda mas · #8 07-21-2005, 12:43 AM

*grunching*

i have no problem laying this down. the pot's laying you about 6:1 and you have to beat 2 players, both of whom have shown strength.

The BB probably has 2 pair, not sure about the MP1.

Chubbers · #9 07-21-2005, 01:30 AM

I think i would have played two parts differently. I would have called the flop but raised on the turn. I'd probably call the river hoping MP2 has KJ or something... and guessing BB has TT or QQ - really i can't work out what he'd have given the way he is leading.

eviljeff · #10 07-21-2005, 02:52 AM

preflop a raise is probably more the "2+2 way"

on the flop you've got an equity edge. pushing it is fine, as long as you don't go heads up. if you isolate mp2 and get capped then your 3bet is very -EV. I just call, hope bb 3bets and you can cap.

on the turn you didn't make your flush, but you possibly have the best hand. I think you still have an equity edge you should push by raising.

river is a pretty easy fold for 2 bets.