lines bad players take that good players misinterpret

[kapw7]

There's a lot to be learned from bad players.

[UncleSalty]

This thread is fantastic. Thank you.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
defined as:just calling a bet or raise out of position [the stop], and then leading out on the next street [the go].

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a stop-n-go if you played passively on the previous street. The key elements of the stop-n-go are:

1. Aggressive action (bet/raise) on the flop or turn.

2. Getting raised by a player who has position on you.

3. Just calling that raise when you could have reraised.

4. Betting out again on the next street.

There is a fifth element that is implied although it cannot always be verified:

5. Using the same values for the bet on the new street. The "cool, I hit my flush" bet is not called a stop-n-go if everyone recognizes it for what it is.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]

It's not a stop-n-go if you played passively on the previous street. The key elements of the stop-n-go are:

1. Aggressive action (bet/raise) on the flop or turn.

2. Getting raised by a player who has position on you.

3. Just calling that raise when you could have reraised.

4. Betting out again on the next street.

There is a fifth element that is implied although it cannot always be verified:

5. Using the same values for the bet on the new street. The "cool, I hit my flush" bet is not called a stop-n-go if everyone recognizes it for what it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for that correction Stellar. I knew I messed that up.

[Guruman]

hey I got put in the digest!

I'll try to add another here, and see how I do.

the turn checkraise

the turn is easily the most difficult street to play in holdem, as the combination of bigger bets and more cards to come combine to create both good bluffing/value opportunities as well as expensive spewing that is usually worsened on the river.

good players can checkraise the turn in different situations and for different reasons, but there is generally a specific goal in mind, and it often requires specific implied actions from the opponents in the hand.

There are generally two broad good player checkraises

<font color="blue">--the value turn checkraise--</font>
usually done with an aggressor directly to hero's left from the previous street. Often this means that hero either slowplayed a monster on the flop or improved to a strong hand on the turn.
Ex:
-mp raises, sb calls, hero calls from the bb with JT[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
the flop comes 629 with two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s. Hero leads, mp raises, sb calls, hero calls.
turn is the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero checks, mp bets, sb calls, hero raises

<font color="blue">--the bluff turn checkraise--</font>
comes when we have an unmade hand (usually with outs)- or a hand that won't improve and a read that villain's hand is foldable. A read that villain can fold is also imperative. This read usually comes from failed value turn checkraises.

Ex.

villain opens in the CO and hero calls from the BB with QTs.

flop comes J65 rainbow. hero checks,villain bets,hero calls.

turn is a 4 completing the rainbow. hero checks,villain bets,hero raises,villain folds.

-----------

bad players can checkraise the turn as well.

Generally speaking, bad players will systematically make two errors - they wont raise enough, and they wont fold enough.

some bad players have played long enough to know that they are making one of these errors, and will the radically compensate to the other side (becoming maniacs and rocks)

Generally, your standard loose fish type bad player will not checkraise the turn without a made hand.

I tend to take turn checkraises from shorthanded players with vpips over 55 and low pfr numbers very seriously. This is because many players with these type of stats are essentially dragnetting thier poker hands, and often play very close to fit or fold postflop.

They like to let the flop define thier hands, and many have watched Sammy Farha limp with J4o and take a guy's stack when he hits on ESPN. The turn (and sometimes river) checkraise is a simile to Farha's all-in move for these players, and they love making a hand and pulling it off.

This is why they play poker. This is the entertainment factor they get. They want to get lucky enough to "outsmart" other players on the expensive streets.

Bad players often do not take into consideration the preflop aggressor, and so will occasionally stuble upon a screwplay [bet,call/check,bet,"screw you" raise]

Ironically, many bad players get very scared when thier turn checkraises get threebet - and they tend to fold too much to this reraise with hands that are too far from the nuts.

They see this move as a very powerful one, and standing up to it can make them wet thier little pants.

or it can get you capped. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]