Economic Freedom vs Social justice

[DVaut1]

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However, please don't insult everyone by calling this arrangement "just".

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I'm guessing most people don't feel particularly insulted by this arrangement -- most people, I think, take a look at place like Somalia and appreciate their lot in life, as horribly oppressive and unjust living under the tyrannical state may be.

At the very least, I appreciate when those dictatorial state-funded police and defense forces come protect me when the pirates try to firebomb and board my cruise ship. Some people may not appreciate such things - to each his own, I guess.

[mrmazoo]

Right, and I don't want to pay for missiles and bombs that kill Iraqi civilians. Also, I don't want to pay for guns to give to police in towns where I don't live.

Also, I don't want to pay the salaries of the people in congress, or the President, or anyone in government for that matter. They don't represent me and never will.

I agree that people shouldn't be FORCED to help people that they don't want to help.

I'm saying that we would all be better off if we spent more time helping each other and less time helping ourselves. I'm not saying we ought to be FORCED to help others more. I realize this is a hard concept to grasp in a world where the concept of Left and Right is equivalent to the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

I personally, would rather live in a world where nobody was able to make enough money to allow their descendents to live work-free for five generations, if it meant that I could walk down any street at 3am and feel safe.

I don't know how to make this come about, but I know that as long as there are people in my neighborhood who work three jobs and still can't make enough money to get themselves and their families by, I will have to lock my doors at all times and spend money on alarm systems and guns in order to keep my family safe from people.

And please don't start telling me how lazy the poor are.

[mrmazoo]

Can you give me an example of a modern society that didn't regulate its economy?

[mrmazoo]

I see what you are saying.

My point is that after awhile, the winner is not whoever comes up with the best widget or best idea, but whoever has amassed the most capital. Or, more insidiously, the winner is whoever launches the most effective propaganda campaign.

[mrmazoo]

You are equating the Left with the US Democratic Party. I don't.

[DVaut1]

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Can you give me an example of a modern society that didn't regulate its economy?

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Haven't you heard about this stateless utopia?

Unfortunately, some statist tyrants are trying to form a 'government' (read = dictatorship) to put an end to the legitimate business interests of the pirates, who routinely receive upwards of $500k per ship they capture. No one has the legitimate right to tell these buccaneers what to do - the statists are merely trying to supplant the pirate's legitimate business with their own brand of state-run fascist piracy, i.e. TAAAXXEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How unjust. Blackbeard must be rolling over in his grave.

[tylerdurden]

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Right, and I don't want to pay for missiles and bombs that kill Iraqi civilians. Also, I don't want to pay for guns to give to police in towns where I don't live.

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Agreed.

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Also, I don't want to pay the salaries of the people in congress, or the President, or anyone in government for that matter. They don't represent me and never will.

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Sounds good.

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I agree that people shouldn't be FORCED to help people that they don't want to help.

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Awesome.

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I'm saying that we would all be better off if we spent more time helping each other and less time helping ourselves. I'm not saying we ought to be FORCED to help others more. I realize this is a hard concept to grasp in a world where the concept of Left and Right is equivalent to the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

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I grasp it just fine. I am not convinced that you really believe this, though, given the way you framed your previous posts. When you imply that me not helping someone else is the same as punishing them, you're already halfway to socialism. I have finite resources, so I can't sufficiently help everyone that needs help. Someone else prioritizing and directing the use of my resources isn't the answer.

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I personally, would rather live in a world where nobody was able to make enough money to allow their descendents to live work-free for five generations, if it meant that I could walk down any street at 3am and feel safe.

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Me too. I'd also like it if gasoline cost $0.25/gallon, and if everyone had a pony. That doesn't mean that there is injustice if those conditions aren't met.

[Gunny Highway]

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I personally, would rather live in a world where nobody was able to make enough money to allow their descendents to live work-free for five generations, if it meant that I could walk down any street at 3am and feel safe.

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Good news! If you manage to do the first thing, then you get to have the second thing too.

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I don't know how to make this come about, but I know that as long as there are people in my neighborhood who work three jobs and still can't make enough money to get themselves and their families by, I will have to lock my doors at all times and spend money on alarm systems and guns in order to keep my family safe from people.

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I hate to break it to you, but eliminating poverty won't eliminate crime. I suggest you move to a different neighborhood.

[Gunny Highway]

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Can you give me an example of a modern society that didn't regulate its economy?

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No. I also can't give you of a modern society in which murder doesn't occur. That doesn't make either one right.

[Gunny Highway]

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I think the burden is on you to prove that Microsoft couldn't have gotten that big if there was no gov't intervention.

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I don't believe it is, but o.k. You really believe Microsoft could have gotten that big w.o intellectual property laws?