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#91
10-23-2005, 10:52 PM
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POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
I am an obstetrician and have performed over 200 circumcisions. So, I have had this conversation with numerous families and am aware of the medical literature. I'll give you the basics in case it is helpful (both pros and cons):
1. The circumcision procedure is not particularly gruesome or painful. It takes me 90 seconds and some infants hardly cry. Most infants cry harder, and longer, when they have their heel sticks done for blood tests. It's not likely that it bothers them more than being born. 2. There is no compelling medical reason to have your infant circumcised. 3. Penile cancer (lifetime) and urinary tract infections in the first 2 years of life are less common in circumcised males. But both are so uncommon that it is not a very important consideration from a statistical standpoint. 4. It is easier to clean a circumcised penis. It is also not very difficult to clean an uncircumcised one, but this is a concern for some mothers. 5. The argument "he can always get a circumcision later if he wants to," is the single worst argument against circumcision that exists. 6. Circumcision is more common in America than non-circumcision and most humans prefer to be common when it comes to matters concerning their sexual organs. 7. Most American women, when polled, will say that they prefer circumcised males. 8. The arguments that "the penis was not meant to be circumcised" or that the intervention is "unnatural" are very flimsy in a modern society. Armpit and genital hair were not meant to be removed, and artificial scents were not "meant" to be applied to the female body, but there does seem to be a social convention for sexuality that involves altering our natural appearance... right or wrong. 9. An uncircumcised male is unlikely to ever endure any significant emotional trauma or relationship difficulty solely due to his uncircumcised state. 10. Some infants will develop a condition called phimosis, where the foreskin contracts and can no longer be retracted over the head of the penis. This sucks and requires circumcision later in childhood or infancy. This condition is common enough, and a big enough deal, that it would be the compelling reason for me to choose circumcision for my son if all other factors were completely equal. Irieguy 
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#93
10-23-2005, 11:05 PM
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Re: POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
Nice post. That was really interesting, i actually am going to bookmark that, and this isnt a decision i'll have to make for another few years atleast. (Barring some accident)
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#94
10-23-2005, 11:11 PM
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Re: Circumcise my baby boy?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is probably the only legitimate reason. You don't want his first thoughts about his penis to be, "Why do I look different than daddy? Is there something wrong with me?" [/ QUOTE ] Who the heck models his cock for his kid? I'm 24 and I don't have any information regarding my dad's penis. [/ QUOTE ] i was going to say this exact same thing
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#95
10-23-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
Addressing some of your points:
1. With all due respect, I don't think any of us are in a position to judge the pain. As to gruesomeness, this is certainly entirely subjective. To me, it's barbaric; to some, it's not only not barbaric but a positive boon. Gruesomeness is not a purely medical judgment in this case. 4. If cleaning your kid is a problem to a mother, it's time to grow up and get over it. Your kid's penis won't bite you, and it's not hard to clean. 5. I agree that the ability to get a circumcision later is not a reason to either get or not get a circumcision now. Circumcisions later in life are much more painful, and by the time one is older, the desire to change probably won't come up unless one is making a religious conversion. 8. Your arguments comparing circumcision to using underarm deodorant are extremely silly. Nobody has to cut or remove pieces from any organs at all, much less sex organs, to smell better. Furthermore, at least putting on a deodorant addresses an extant problem. Being uncircumcised is not a "problem." 10. European kids are not having significant amounts of phimosis problems and requiring circumcision, nor are they in the rest of the world, which in the majority is uncircumcised. Potential phimosis is not a realistic concern. A number of your points focus on social acceptance. Some, like points 6 and 7, seem to tread the same ground. I think you've put undue emphasis on that. Social acceptance considerations are minor, and it's doubtful they are worth the space and repetition you give them. I wouldn't put the chances of sexual rejection because someone is uncircumcised very high at all. Vanishingly low is more like it. In a relationship that isn't just about instant casual sex and a quick goodbye, where the partners have absolutely no emotional connnection or concern for each other, acceptance of the other person generally comes pretty freely with the territory. And in a more quick and casual encounter, much the same applies. My theory is that when people want to bang each other, and it gets to the stage of nakedness, it's generally going forward or it wouldn't have gotten that far. And if it's good between the two partners, it will happen again, and circumcision won't even be an issue. If it ever was in the first place. Which it probably wasn't.
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#97
10-23-2005, 11:26 PM
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Re: POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
lol im sure someone else has said this but unless you want your kid to get made fun of all the time, just get the circumcision
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#98
10-24-2005, 12:36 AM
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Re: POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
Very good post.
Some comments: [ QUOTE ] 1. The circumcision procedure is not particularly gruesome or painful. [/ QUOTE ] I find the idea that circumcisions are "not particularly painful" EXTREMELY hard to believe. Was this observation made during procedures with or without anesthetic? Even with anesthetic, I can't believe that it wouldn't hurt like hell afterwards. [ QUOTE ] 4. It is easier to clean a circumcised penis. It is also not very difficult to clean an uncircumcised one, but this is a concern for some mothers. [/ QUOTE ] Would these mothers honestly prefer caring for a raw, bloody, freshly circumcised penis? [ QUOTE ] 5. The argument "he can always get a circumcision later if he wants to," is the single worst argument against circumcision that exists. [/ QUOTE ] Whether this is true or not, the fact remains that it is HIS penis and it should be HIS choice. [ QUOTE ] 7. Most American women, when polled, will say that they prefer circumcised males. [/ QUOTE ] Most American women, when polled, will also say that they've never had any experience with uncircumcised males. [ QUOTE ] 8. The arguments that "the penis was not meant to be circumcised" or that the intervention is "unnatural" are very flimsy in a modern society. Armpit and genital hair were not meant to be removed, and artificial scents were not "meant" to be applied to the female body, but there does seem to be a social convention for sexuality that involves altering our natural appearance... right or wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Hair grows back; artificial scents can be washed off; but the circumcised foreskin is gone forever. Also, if people want to remove their hair or apply an artificial scent, it is their choice to do so. The infant who is being circumcised has no choice. [ QUOTE ] 9. An uncircumcised male is unlikely to ever endure any significant emotional trauma or relationship difficulty solely due to his uncircumcised state. [/ QUOTE ] In addition, there are plenty of circumcised males who have endured significant emotional trauma solely due to their circumcised state. [ QUOTE ] 10. Some infants will develop a condition called phimosis, where the foreskin contracts and can no longer be retracted over the head of the penis. This sucks and requires circumcision later in childhood or infancy. This condition is common enough, and a big enough deal, that it would be the compelling reason for me to choose circumcision for my son if all other factors were completely equal. [/ QUOTE ] People shouldn't be retracting infant foreskin over the head of the penis anyway. My understanding is that you should leave it alone until it naturally "detaches" from the glans. Also, from what I've read, phimosis can often be successfully treated without having to resort to circumcision.
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#99
10-24-2005, 12:44 AM
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Re: POV from somebody that\'s performed circumcisions
[ QUOTE ]
In addition, there are plenty of circumcised males who have endured significant emotional trauma solely due to their circumcised state. [/ QUOTE ] What??
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