Ouch.

OrianasDaad · #1 03-24-2005, 10:05 AM

CO is LAG, over 80% VPIP.
UTG is TAG, just came back into the game.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
4 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG (poster) 3-bets, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (24.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 36.75 BB

LAG could, and has been seen to have absolutely anything. In fact, he showed down an unimproved K9o here.

I'm thinking that I'm good here enough of the time since the LAG is essentially dead money.

waynethetrain · #2 03-24-2005, 10:09 AM

I don't really like the 3-bet on the turn. I think it's already likely you are beat based on UTG's play. Plus, even if CO is a wildman, sometimes wildmen get good cards. You can't discount him totally.

jrz1972 · #3 03-24-2005, 10:18 AM

The LAG has done nothing but raise every time he was given the opportunity. If he's doing that with something like K9o, he's a total maniac, not just a run-of-the-mill LAG.

Never mind the fact that a TAG limp-reraised and then kept raising every time he had the chance.

I don't see how your overpair is good here. Folding the turn probably would have been a good idea. 3-betting the turn is insane. On the river, you can probably also go ahead and ditch this the first time it's two bets to you. Granted, the pot is huge, but you're facing two opponents who show absolutely no fear of the overpair you've represented, and you have to anticipate that they're not done raising yet.

Off the top of my head I can't remember the last time I folded pocket aces, but sometimes it's the right move. I think you lost 6BB more than you had to here.

@bsolute_luck · #4 03-24-2005, 10:21 AM

yeah, maybe others will have better explanations, but it isn't necessarily the CO LAG that i have to worry about, but the TAG UTG.

i'm calling the turn. i don't know about the river. while the hand is big, all the reraising has me thinking our TP is smoked.

Isura · #5 03-24-2005, 10:34 AM

UTG looks like a set. From the turn onwards, try to get to a showdown cheaply.

OrianasDaad · #6 03-24-2005, 10:41 AM

I wasn't worried about UTG at all. TAG either is way ahead or way behind.

His VPIP is pretty low, as is his pfr over about 700 hands (13/3/2.5), so I can tell that he has a better-than-average starting hand even for a tight player. He's not a TAG from the definition used here most often. TP-A would be more accurate. I stopped using the icons a long time ago.

I was immediately worried about QQ from his actions on the flop, but he could be playing KK the same way, mabye AQs. When the river came with another queen, I figured I was behind, but the pot is ginormous. I figured I would be ahead enough of the time here with an overpair, no straight or flushes possible, given the size of the pot. I am figuring to put four bets in on the river to win a 32.75BB pot. I only need to win here 10.9% of the time for it to be +EV.

I'd appreciate more input into this hand.

I buddied the LAG, BTW.

KaiShin · #7 03-24-2005, 11:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG looks like a set. From the turn onwards, try to get to a showdown cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]
With a maniac CO in this hand, this is impossible for Hero.

Unfortunately, I would have to dump this on the turn when its 2 cold to me. UTG is playing too strongly for our AA to be good. He probably has a good read on CO too, and is not counting his raises, but when he caps you on the flop then leads the turn, he's telling you he's not scared of overpairs. I'd dump it and look for a better opportunity to isolate CO.

Thigh · #8 03-24-2005, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is playing too strongly ... when he caps you on the flop then leads the turn, he's telling you he's not scared of overpairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting way you put this. It sounded a lot better then, "UTG has a big hand."

wyoak · #9 03-24-2005, 12:34 PM

I can't think of a hand that UTG would have that would make sense for a TAG besides maybe AQs. QQ you'd think he'd raise PF and make everyone face two cold (since he posted). 55 or 77 would he really 3bet PF? Maybe to try to isolate you...I dunno. UTG is either not really TAG or (more likely) is much better than me.

In fact I'm completely confused PF. Where's SB/BB? I only see one fold between button and UTG.

wabe · #10 03-24-2005, 04:32 PM

UTG caps both flop and turn, then bets out on the river, and you're still hanging with him?

If a TP-A player played like this, and doesn't have a history of overplaying hands, I fold the turn. He doesn't care about the raises, and doesn't seem to be frightened of AA.