Question on Turn bet here....

pj4533 · #1 06-14-2005, 10:01 AM

My question is on the action on the turn here. Do you raise the turn to throw out the draws against my trips, or call hoping for a blank river? If I call, I figure my hand is disguised so I can maximize profit if a non-scary card comes.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

SB ($48.25)
BB ($27.43)
UTG ($16.8)
UTG+1 ($80)
MP1 ($65.65)
MP2 ($95.35)
CO ($42.55)
Hero ($76.3)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls $3.

Flop: ($11.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($11.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $3, Hero ???

michaliv · #2 06-14-2005, 10:12 AM

I think you should raise it on the turn. I would probably raise it to $8-10. He may just be trying to steal here and will fold to a raise, but he may have picked up a draw or possibly even a set. He will probably still call with a draw to see the last card. If you call here, you a giving him infinite odds on catching his flush/straight. Plus if he misses you will not make anymore money. You have the nuts right now, make him pay to draw against you.

pj4533 · #3 06-14-2005, 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise it on the turn. I would probably raise it to $8-10. He may just be trying to steal here and will fold to a raise, but he may have picked up a draw or possibly even a set. He will probably still call with a draw to see the last card. If you call here, you a giving him infinite odds on catching his flush/straight. Plus if he misses you will not make anymore money. You have the nuts right now, make him pay to draw against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, thats what my initial thought was as well. However, lately I have been thinking that I play so obviously, and never disguise my hands. Is there any value in calling the turn, betting small on the (non-scare card) river, hoping for a busted draw to bluff? Or is that such a remote string of events, that it is usually just better to play it safe, raise...and go from there?

My point is, if you know you are ahead, and your opponent is probably on a draw. Do you ALWAYS want to make the odds incorrect for them to draw, or do you sometimes want to allow them to draw, being prepared to fold to a scare card.

-pj

michaliv · #4 06-14-2005, 10:30 AM

At the .25/.50NL games most players do not pay attention how you play, so for the most part just play it straight and you will most likely make more money. Especially with this hand (a few draws and possible set) there is too great a chance that you will get paid off.

pj4533 · #5 06-14-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At the .25/.50NL games most players do not pay attention how you play, so for the most part just play it straight and you will most likely make more money. Especially with this hand (a few draws and possible set) there is too great a chance that you will get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play in some tougher games, where disguising my hand is probably more important, but at the 0.25/0.50NL, you are right...I just need to stick to the basics.

As it turns out, it didn't make a difference either way on the river, but I was thinking I screwed up after the turn. (results in other post)

-pj

pj4533 · #6 06-14-2005, 10:39 AM

Heres the full hand in all its glory. Opponent did have AQ though, so my turn question was a valid concern:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

SB ($48.25)
BB ($27.43)
UTG ($16.8)
UTG+1 ($80)
MP1 ($65.65)
MP2 ($95.35)
CO ($42.55)
Hero ($76.3)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls $3.

Flop: ($11.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($11.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $3, Hero calls $3.

River: ($17.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $5, CO calls $34.55 (All-In), Hero calls $29.55.

Final Pot: $86.35

res1cue · #7 06-14-2005, 10:43 AM

play it normally, don't desguise it, it not worth it because most players at those limits don't classify players, they only play the cards, so play yours accordingly.
Just remember one thing, its always the bad players who will draw out on the good players because they are the ones chasing the impossible, so make him pay for it.

swolfe · #8 06-14-2005, 11:08 AM

bet the flop. you should be aggressive enough with your other hands that you'll get action here.

pmuir10 · #9 06-14-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any value in calling the turn, betting small on the (non-scare card) river, hoping for a busted draw to bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

its pretty rare for someone to check raise the river as a bluff at this level. if they think your bet seems weak, they are more likely to just call it and see if they are right, instead of checkraising with a busted flush draw.

jpg7n16 · #10 06-14-2005, 02:24 PM

Eh I raise the turn, but not so much that draws don't think it's still cheap enough. Maybe raise to.... $8?? Seems about right to me.

If he has a draw/hand he'll call. If he was just taking a stab at it, then he probably has nothing and you couldn't get any more out of him anyways. It was a really weak stab though.