Andy Bloch on Calling Down With Bottom Pair

PokrLikeItsProse · #1 07-29-2005, 04:18 AM

Saw this interesting hand on Full Tilt Poker, with a follow-up discussion:

Folded to Andy Bloch, who button-raises and is three-bet by Dimo.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

On each street, Dimo bets and Andy Bloch calls.

Dimo shows [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (a pair of Sixes)
Andy Bloch shows [2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] (two pair, Sixes and Twos)
Andy Bloch wins the pot ($82) with two pair, Sixes and Twos

The following informative discussion occurs (extraneous comments and other hands removed):

Dimo: i still cant get over that call
Dimo: i feel like he saw my hand
Dimo: i know
Dealer: Andy Bloch has 15 seconds left to act
Dimo: its just crazy that he called with a pair
of 2's
Andy Bloch: your play was strange
PencilGeek: I saw your AT too when I had
bottom pair...just so happened you
eventually caught. :-)
Andy Bloch: betting out on the flop
Andy Bloch: i figured you were either
making a move or had trips
Andy Bloch: and there was enough in the
pot to justify calling
igotskillz2: really ?
Dimo: there was no draws out there either, so
you couldnt put me on a draw
Andy Bloch: right, and i knew you knew that
dethoramous: dude get over it thats poker
bensen13 (Observer): yeah, he was getting
like 4 or 5 to 1, couldve been playing aq or
somethin
bensen13 (Observer): the call is definitely
justifiable
Andy Bloch: i needed to be right about 12%
of the time to call there
Andy Bloch: betting with AQ there would be
a mistake, but you see plenty of people do it,
making calling with as little as bottom pair
right
igotskillz2: good point Andy
Andy Bloch: i was getting over 7-1
bensen13 (Observer): even better
Andy Bloch: betting with AQ there would be
a mistake, but you see plenty of people do it,
making calling with as little as bottom pair
right
bensen13 (Observer): thats what im sayin
Dimo: lets go andy, me and you heads up for
a mil
bensen13 (Observer): people will bet their
big cards all the way down cause they dont
wanna lose their aggression
bensen13 (Observer): or call all the way
down with their ak and hit somethin on the
river, makes me sick
dethoramous: LOL
Andy Bloch: when i raise on the button, i
don't give much respect to a reraise
igotskillz2: yay , and stayed
igotskillz2: andy*
Dimo: you hit the 3 outer on me
bensen13 (Observer): cmon dimo, you had
a4, not that "monster" of a hand
RollingThndr (Observer): jeez...I hope you
can sleep tonight Dimo
Andy Bloch: dimo, most of the time we are
chopping
Dimo: this is true
Dimo: if you dont hit the flop though, you
fold

Sykes · #2 07-29-2005, 05:41 AM

So Andy is a big calling station. good for him.

Edit, besides: it's not that hard to call down on this board. If andy doesn't give Dimo credit for a K, he believes that dimo will bet on every street with A high and can call down. Plus this board is even scary. Board pairs on the the turn making bottom pair alot stronger and a rag falls on the river.

Not a genius play.

Equal · #3 07-29-2005, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So Andy is a big calling station. good for him.

Edit, besides: it's not that hard to call down on this board. If andy doesn't give Dimo credit for a K, he believes that dimo will bet on every street with A high and can call down. Plus this board is even scary. Board pairs on the the turn making bottom pair alot stronger and a rag falls on the river.

Not a genius play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, not a genius play calling down with bottom pair. Anyone can do that. But how about knowing *when* it's the right situation to call down with bottom pair?

waffle · #4 07-29-2005, 07:03 AM

andy had a good idea of the sb's 3betting range in this situation as well as which hands he will bet on this board. if you think this hand is interesting you probably don't have a good grasp on shorthanded play

PokrLikeItsProse · #5 07-29-2005, 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
andy had a good idea of the sb's 3betting range in this situation as well as which hands he will bet on this board. if you think this hand is interesting you probably don't have a good grasp on shorthanded play

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I found it interesting that Andy was willing to explain in that great detail why he was doing what he was doing. I think that I personally have a pretty good grasp on when to call down with bottom pair since I get the same sort of whining (I just don't answer), just as I do when I find my opponent's betting makes it appropriate for me to call down sometimes when three overcards flop to my small pocket pair. It's a routine play for me, but I see posts here which makes me think it is not routine for a lot of people.

waffle · #6 07-29-2005, 10:48 AM

that's true, it is odd. if i had to guess, i'd say it's probably a part of andy's agreement w/ FTP that he is to be sociable with the other players.

DMBFan23 · #7 07-29-2005, 11:00 AM

I think the most interesting part of this hand is the part where Andy says that Dimo would be incorrect to bet with AQ in that spot.

Andy's advocating a HPFAP style check the best 20% and worst 20% approach? hmm...

waffle · #8 07-29-2005, 11:10 AM

i think he means on the river?

DMBFan23 · #9 07-29-2005, 11:21 AM

I think when he says he was getting "a little over 7-1", the only place that could be true was on the flop, plus he mentions "when you bet the flop I thought you were either making a move or had trips"

I'm not fully sure myself though

DeathDonkey · #10 07-29-2005, 11:33 AM

Andy sounds dumb in this. But his play is fine.

-DeathDonkey