JJ Bad Spot

sthief09 · #1 03-03-2005, 03:28 AM

not enough hands for any specific reads (reads aka what the computer tells me), but they both seem typical, ie 30/10 types who are reasonably aggressive postflop

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $15.
3 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.66 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero...

fold or call?
if call, what's my river action: if it's bet to me, if it's checked to me?

SGS · #2 03-03-2005, 03:30 AM

Folds. I probably cap PF to make the hand play easier.

SGS

sthief09 · #3 03-03-2005, 03:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Folds. I probably cap PF to make the hand play easier.

SGS

[/ QUOTE ]

that doesn't make the hand play easier at all. it makes it harder to play because I have less information (whether the original raiser caps and who wants to bet the flop)

mr pink · #4 03-03-2005, 03:35 AM

anywhere else i think this is a fold, but with the laggros at 15/30 i'm not sure. i'd say call here and call any non ace or king river, as long as mp2 keeps quiet.

Kailia Marie · #5 03-03-2005, 03:40 AM

Hi sthief09,

I would cap this preflop, though I understand the argument agaisnt it, but against a typical range of raising and 3-betting hands, JJ will hold up its fair share, especially if AK, AQ, TT gets thrown in the mix. It's an MP2 openraise and a MP3 3-bet. Its not as if its UTG, UTG+1.

All that said, the flop is a good spot to raise. When you get 3-bet on the flop you must call to spike a set or hit your backdoor draw.

On the turn, what can you possibly be beating here? The flop was not draw heavy. MP3 3-bet preflop and 3-bet this flop and lead the turn on a blank. A hand that cannot beat JJ will not do that. I vote fold and it's not really that close, IMO.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia

SGS · #6 03-03-2005, 03:42 AM

By capping pre-flop they react to you and you announce your strength. I don't know I am used to playing lower than this and the players I play against are probably easier to manipulate, but it just seems to me by announcing strength and having opponents react to you it would make the hand play easier.

SGS

sthief09 · #7 03-03-2005, 03:44 AM

good post. welcome

I'm sure most will say to cap preflop there. I wanted to give the original raiser a chance to cap it to see what I was up against. not capping also lets the action develop in front of me on the flop, rather than it getting checked to me almost every time.

RyGreen18 · #8 03-03-2005, 03:45 AM

im folding this, especially with someone left to act. i dont think your good here enough times against two opponents to make this profitable, especially which only 2 redraws. calling down heads up seems standard, but the 3rd opponent makes this a fold IMO

Michael Davis · #9 03-03-2005, 03:46 AM

The play of seeing if it gets capped would be much more useful if the raiser came in from earlier. As it is, I probably just cap and get the money right away.

Also I'm playing 0.01-0.02 NL on Stars. Come and play.

-Michael

sthief09 · #10 03-03-2005, 03:49 AM

I don't think you gain anything by overrepresenting your hand. first of all, you go into the flop not knowing how much the original raiser likes his hand. then, it goes checkcheck most of the time. if I don't cap, I get to see if the original raiser caps. this reminds me of the AQo hand, where I didn't liek raising because you defer your position. that's exactly what I'd do here with a cap. the flop would go checkcheck and I'd have no clue how much my opponents like their hands. then I get check raised or slowplayed 100% of the time. then what? call down? how does this help?