Racism in the NBA and NFL

[Triumph36]

Ah, yes. The fundamental distinction between pandering to mistaken values or attempting to change those values.

SammyKid's asking what the problem is with throwback jerseys and jewelry. The NBA is losing fans - ticket holders just don't identify with that image. Do you see many people with ostentatious jewelry and throwback jerseys in the crowds of NBA games? You're more likely to see business casual - at least in the lower tiers.

You're asking the wrong question. It's not up to the NBA to change long-standing biases or prejudices, it's up to them to make money and sell tickets. You can shout all you want about racism, but you are all over the map with your charges. No one is complaining about Ben Wallace's hair, either. So, congratulations on the strawman, but I'm not buying it.

If you believe it is up to corporations to project values on society rather than reflect them, then the debate ends here. Again, it's not up to the NBA to tell John Q. Ticketholder in Indiana what he should think about NBA players.

[James Boston]

Dan Patrick's commentary on the NBA dress code was spot on. Summary:

As far as the whole "it's a business" angle. BS. The players business is on the court.

What the NBA is out to do is make the league more appealing to corporate (translate = white) America. There are better ways to do this than regulate what the players wear off the court. I.E. get rid of the baggy clothes on the court.

I agree that the NBA polishing their image is a good thing. Telling Iverson to calm down isn't all that bad of an idea. Telling every player that he can't wear jewelery...I don't know about that.

What would Tagliabue do?

[Pudge714]

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My argument was not there were more failure than sucesses my argument is. If LBJ T-Mac etc. went to college they would be similarly succesfull, while Lenny Cooke etc. would not be nearly as big failures.

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First, you have no way of knowing whether Lenny Cooke would be less of a failure if he went to college. Second, you have no way of knowing if T-Mac or LeBron would be similarly successful had they gone to college...some people do not benefit from learning to specialize at the college game, others get bad coaching in college (my college roommate, a pitcher drafted out of high school by the Braves but opted to go to TCU because Nolan Ryan was supposed to be the pitching coach there but left right before my roomy's freshman year, instead learned HORRIBLE habits from a bad coach...totally f'ed up his game, and he was never drafted again -- had he gone straight to the minors, he may have received much better coaching and be a successful player today). Thirdly, you're still assuming that college necessarily helps players to be better in some way, when the evidence that's presently available simply does not support that claim.

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As a general fact Education=Good. Obviously I cannot prove my statement as it was hypothetical, but I'm just bringing up an interesting point. However while were on the subject of hypocrisy your claim of your friend becoming a better pitcher if he went pro is just as valid as my point about Lenny Cooke. Also it would be hard for Lenny Cooke to be a much bigger failure, and I bet he wishes he got a free ride at college and earned his degree.

Also many players learn how to win in college. Outside of Kobe and Moses Malone there has not been one highschooler to have a significant impact on a championship team.

[SammyKid11]

Well, guys...here's the thing. I see a racist element at work in some of these decisions. I've explained my reasons for seeing that racist element, and I've rebutted all the basic claims that have been made against my reasoning. More and more of you are piling on making the same general arguments (ie - league trying to appeal to white fans, trying to "protect" young players, trying to protect their bankrolls from their own greed, you have to wear certain clothes to work so why shouldn't NBA stars, minor league system too costly when you have the indentured servitude of the NCAA, etc.). I've come back rebutting those arguments to the best of my abilites during my many (time-consuming) posts in this thread.

It looks like I'm not changing the principal responders' minds, which I'm okay with. Rest assured you're not changing mine. I believe it's foolish and naive to blithely believe that racism does not at least PLAY A PART in some of these decisions...even if that racism is de facto, tacit, and even subconscious.

But most of you guys do not seem to believe that...fine by me. I'm glad we had the discussion anyway.

Nevertheless, I no longer care because......

THE ASTROS ARE GOING TO THE WORLD SERIES!!!!! AND THAT MEANS........SO AM I!!!!!!!!

This thread was really something I started to be a distraction between Games 5 and 6 (also because I thought the discussion would be interesting).

So, unless someone has some new, revolutionary argument to be made on either side of this coin...I think it's probably over. Thanks for the responses, guys.

Go STROS.

[arod15]

its not as bad as you make it to be but it does exist...

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let's face it, very few white people have the innate basketball ability at age 18 to play in the NBA).


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This is a racist comment. It is also exclusive of the considerations of Asian, Middle-Eastern, and Hispanics athletes.

[SammyKid11]

1) That's already been said by another poster a long time ago.

2) It was a stupid statement then, and it hasn't become any less stupid today. I'm trying to talk realistically and factually about who these rules are affecting...the numbers say overwhelmingly that they will affect young black athletes, and it's not racist to point that out.

3) Even though you're a fellow Astros fan, I put about as much stock in what you say as I do in what KSteel said...lol - before you got banned with that screen name anyway. This thread is over, quit looking for a fight.