Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?

[mplspoker]

Business/Poker... measure is $$$. Life obviously not but here we are talking poker ... i thought.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

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Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

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The financial advisor may be true, but it wouldn't be based on networth but average return, and if there results were lower it would need to be due to bad luck.

Would you hire a chess coach that you could beat regularly? What about a Starcraft coach that you pwn easily? The analogy doesn't apply unless there are many factors other than knowledge of the game. There may be worth in still hiring the coach if he knows much more about mental prep, psychology, etc.

[mosta]

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I tend to listen to people making more $$ than me and tend not to listen to people making a lot less than me. There is a reason why people are in the spots they are in life.
...
You don't pull up in a limo to get financial advice from someone who just drove up on his bicycle.

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Actually, if you were successful enough to need a financial advisor, you would know that the vast majority of financial advisors have far less money than their clients.

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a lot of successful trading strategies have been the implementation of academic ideas (often well-known ones). see eg, Milken and the market undervaluation of high-yield debt over decades (and a more recent hedge fund that was in the paper, arbing value versus growth portfolios market-neutral). those academics didn't make millions. or at least not for themselves. or maybe it is better to throw money at this year's newest hotshot--couldn't just be luck, could it?

PS I take no position on whether Angelo would be a good investment for whoever.

[Justin A]

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Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

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FWIW, I totally agree that this dude is a total moron. But the one point that is valid that he appears too stupid to make is that performance and knowledge are for more correlated than they are in basketball, baseball, etc. That said, I do genuinely think that Tommy has something to offer that many players(specifically online players like me) can really learn and improve from. I don't want to hear Tommy's theory on how it's possible that UTG is a losing position or how I should be folding QTs to a raise when 3 people are in the pot and I am in the BB - but that's not the point of these lessons, anyway.
-James

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Your ideas are compelling but I'm really going to need to see your tax return before I decide if they have merit.

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Sure, also, I decided to hire Lebron James as my financial advisor.
-James

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I doubt this is a good fit considering his net worth five years ago was most likely less than yours.

[kidcolin]

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[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The financial advisor may be true, but it wouldn't be based on networth but average return, and if there results were lower it would need to be due to bad luck.

Would you hire a chess coach that you could beat regularly? What about a Starcraft coach that you pwn easily? The analogy doesn't apply unless there are many factors other than knowledge of the game. There may be worth in still hiring the coach if he knows much more about mental prep, psychology, etc.

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Good point. I just fired my Starcraft coach.

[nothumb]

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So who is Chip Reese, Phil Ivey, Barry Greenstein's coaches??? Poker is different this is all mental. I'm sorry but poker isn't any different than business.. I tend to listen to people making more $$ than me and tend not to listen to people making a lot less than me. There is a reason why people are in the spots they are in life.

You don't pull up in a limo to get financial advice from someone who just drove up on his bicycle.

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You will probably die miserable, confused and alone. Good luck.

NT

[rory]

Garry Kasparov: FIDE rating 2812, possibly the best chess player who has ever lived.

Yuri Dokhoian: FIDE rating: 2580. Weak, completely unknown GM.

Dokhoian has been Kasparov's coach since 1995. Not too many people know that because he is content to make his living and spend his life helping Kasparov win. He is also much younger than Kasparov.

Here is a picture of them. It says a lot.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

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Garry Kasparov: FIDE rating 2812, possibly the best chess player who has ever lived.

Yuri Dokhoian: FIDE rating: 2580. Weak, completely unknown GM.

Dokhoian has been Kasparov's coach since 1995. Not too many people know that because he is content to make his living and spend his life helping Kasparov win. He is also much younger than Kasparov.

Here is a picture of them. It says a lot.



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I don't think this qualifies really for a lot of itangible reasons. The type of coaching he gives is different than technical coaching, it's not like Kasparov is asking for technical advice on how to play XX during YY. It's more likely he talks with someone nearly as good as he who can help him evaluate faster, and to have someone who can look over all his play and tell him where he thinks he is failing. I think your example is basically like BK hiring Schneids as his coach. The type of coaching that Yuri provides isn't something TA could do in the format he has, and really that type of coaching is the only type that would be meaningful.

[rory]

A better response would be, "I was wrong using chess as a counter-example. Thanks for pointing that out."

[Alex/Mugaaz]

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A better response would be, "I was wrong using chess as a counter-example. Thanks for pointing that out."

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Maybe I'm wrong, what the hell do I really know about why Kasparov pays him? I'd just be willing to bet that the major reason he is paying him isn't to answer questions he doesn't know that can be answered without computer analysis.
As long as that's true then I'm confident the actual reason is fairly unimportant to this discussion.