Jacks Played Poorly--Any Help?

#1 08-11-2005, 05:41 PM

I would have to say that pocket queens and jacks are the toughest hands for me out of position. I really did not like the way that I played this particular hand, though.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 folds, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button raises, Hero folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Button bets, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Bradyams · #2 08-11-2005, 05:48 PM

Raise preflop
Bet the flop
Don't fold the turn
Call the river

Honestly, you screwed this one up pretty bad. You really just need to raise preflop here, and that changes the whole hand.

It might help if you try to explain to us what you were thinking during each action you took in this hand. Cause I'm a little confused why you played it the way you did.

bottomset · #3 08-11-2005, 05:49 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 folds, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button raises, Hero folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Button bets, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

um raise preflop, bet the flop .. go from there

MrWookie47 · #4 08-11-2005, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop
Bet the flop
Don't fold the turn
Call the river

Honestly, you screwed this one up pretty bad. You really just need to raise preflop here, and that changes the whole hand.

It might help if you try to explain to us what you were thinking during each action you took in this hand. Cause I'm a little confused why you played it the way you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

And use the converter, or at least don't post screen names. It's not that hard to type it out by hand.

#5 08-11-2005, 05:55 PM

I checked pre-flop because of all the callers (with likely overcards) and the fact that I was out of position. Usually this is a raise for me (and trust me, I am not a weak player), but I had just read something saying that with four or more callers, you could try just checking jacks from the BB due to the positional disadvantage.

From there, I wanted to get in a check-raise on the flop, not bet it out due to the fact that I could just be building a pot for flush and/or straight draws. However, mwbeirne's raise on the flop made me suspicious that he might already have the nut straight (or at the very least, a very strong hand, two pair or trips, possibly).

I don't think the rest of the hand was worth going into calldown mode, especially with the jack high flush draw (against a likely made hand).

bottomset · #6 08-11-2005, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I checked pre-flop because of all the callers (with likely overcards) and the fact that I was out of position. Usually this is a raise for me (and trust me, I am not a weak player), but I had just read something saying that with four or more callers, you could try just checking jacks from the BB due to the positional disadvantage.

From there, I wanted to get in a check-raise on the flop, not bet it out due to the fact that I could just be building a pot for flush and/or straight draws. However, mwbeirne's raise on the flop made me suspicious that he might already have the nut straight (or at the very least, a very strong hand, two pair or trips, possibly).

I don't think the rest of the hand was worth going into calldown mode, especially with the jack high flush draw (against a likely made hand).

[/ QUOTE ]

against good postflop players at higher limits checking JJ can be a good play in the blinds .. at .5/1 its an super easy value raise

and yes you are weak, and suffer from MUBS

tell me who you were planning on Check/raising on this flop??

just to give you an idea of JJ strength if its 3handed and all3overcards are out, and 2flusdraws, you still hold your own, if they have shared overcards(both have an A) you have a solid edge

JJ is the 4th/5th best HE hand period

SavageMiser · #7 08-11-2005, 06:06 PM

Raise PF.

I'd bet on the flop, but I'm OK with a CR. If it comes back raised, all right, 3-bet. I'm not afraid of the flush draw much, since a have J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in my hand. A soooted K or A probably would have raised PF, I'm a-guessin'. So if the turn comes up [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I've got a redraw. If someone flopped a straight, que sera.

Turn: I'm not folding to that raise, sorry. I've got an over pair and a flush redraw. Any reads on the button would help though.

#8 08-11-2005, 06:09 PM

Well, this is the last time I try something new. The fact that I didn't raise PF scared me the rest of the hand (as I knew that most of the players wouldn't be aware enough to put me on overcards once the flop hit).

And bottomset, I'm sorry, but my PokerTracker stats don't really tell me that I'm a weak player. I just played it differently than normal and got myself in a bad spot.

cfjr2 · #9 08-11-2005, 06:15 PM

J hi flush leaves 3 cards that beat you - odds (i think) are 3/46 * 4 or about 25% that one of the 4 cards they hold beat your flush draw.

you win the flush at > 50% of the time (If I have the math right >70%). There are two other players so you only need to win 33%.

Oh - once the river comes there are only 2 cards that beat you. Its worth a call (if not a raise).

If I have this completely wrong please let me know.

bottomset · #10 08-11-2005, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but my PokerTracker stats don't really tell me that I'm a weak player.

[/ QUOTE ]

care to post them

you have weaktight written all over you, don't worry a lot of us start off that way, I used to be that way a while back at 1/2 full, 17/9/2.8 but I played very weak postflop

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to get in a check-raise on the flop, not bet it out due to the fact that I could just be building a pot for flush and/or straight draws

[/ QUOTE ]

um yeah this is bad reasoning, and who are you check-raising, don't just say 1 of them .. who specifically and why do you think he will bet the flop

[ QUOTE ]
However, mwbeirne's raise on the flop made me suspicious that he might already have the nut straight (or at the very least, a very strong hand, two pair or trips, possibly).

[/ QUOTE ]

um he could be raising plenty more than just the nut straight, twopair and trips ..