Is Phil Helmuth even THAT good? - Page 3

MMMMMM · #21 05-31-2004, 02:58 PM

I played a bit with him online and he played poorly. A good friend of mine played with him at Foxwoods and he played bizarrely and badly. His book shows he does not think about poker very well.

Sure, he can get a good idea or make a great read once in a while, and he got very lucky in tournies. That doesn't make him a great tournament player--it just makes him a tournament player who had great results.

thylacine · #22 05-31-2004, 03:15 PM

http://www.cardplayer.com/player_of_..._by=poy_points

salty · #23 05-31-2004, 03:32 PM

The guy has lost sight of where hes at,he needs to check the ego at the door,stop feeling sorry for himself and realise that tournaments like the WSOP are not going to play the same way they used to due to the very high proportion of online players and newbies.Its no surprise that players like Greg and Chris M. became world champions because they have seen the madness that is on line tourneys,theres a rhythm to on line tourneys and you cant ride roughshot over them like some pros have tried and you also cannot expect text book plays (although it seems Phil saw a few out of his own book).

daryn · #24 05-31-2004, 03:41 PM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Its no surprise that players like Greg and Chris M. became world champions because they have seen the madness that is on line tourneys,theres a rhythm to on line tourneys and you cant ride roughshot over them like some pros have tried

[/ QUOTE ]

not quite sure what this means

salty · #25 05-31-2004, 04:03 PM

What i was trying to get at is that in my limited poker experience i think on line tournaments and B&M tournaments play very differently.On line in order to get to the point where people play more correctly you have to negotiate the early part of the tournament where its a bit of a crap shoot ie: players going all in pre flop with 77 (referring to phils article) and it seems the WSOP might (I've never been there) be playing a bit like a big stars or party tournament,where skilled on line tournament players can sail through the mine field that is on line style tournament play.

I am in no way trying to take away from the achievments of either Greg or Chris Moneymaker,but it seems that pros like Phil H. cant play "their" A game against an on line type field.I am basing this on the various whingings I read from pros who busted out of the WSOP because they couldnt bluff at pots or were re raised all in by people with worse holdings than their own.

RPatterson · #26 05-31-2004, 05:32 PM

So you should play a very passive defensive game in a large-field tournament? Sorry but I think your the one that doesn't understand large-field tournament play.

NLfool · #27 05-31-2004, 05:35 PM

you take your shot early build a big stack so you can take those blows from the guys moving all in with 77 or be done with it early. Still can't believe he folded KK.

chrisjp · #28 05-31-2004, 05:45 PM

Exactly. The "Pros", by and large, don't have nearly the experience in online tournaments that players like Greg have. And I do believe that the first 2 days of the tournament play much like those. Most of the Pros didn't adjust. But FossilMan also has a ton of "traditional" tournament experience too. And he has formulated his own tournament strategies and not just taken the experts "word" for how to play. Read Glazers piece at http://www.finaltablepoker.com/view_...?article_id=68

It's a fact that Greg has experience against the "traditional" foes like Harrington. Don't get me wrong--Harrington is a GREAT player. But I think Greg knows how to deal with Harrington. Harrington may not be as familiar with Greg's style. In Glazer's article Greg said that he feared Josh Arieh the most. I watched the last 3 days, and I would have feared Josh the most too. Boy can he play. Can't wait to see the hole cards.

BabyJesus · #29 05-31-2004, 06:46 PM

I remember seeing that hand. Phil had QQ other guy had QJo. The turn was a King which made it so the other guy was drawing dead but phil folded his confidently face up.

Syntax · #30 05-31-2004, 07:25 PM

You don't think Harrington knows how to deal with a player like Raymer? You got to be kidding me. The guy has come in top 4 in the two largest fields in WSOP history. He won another one. I don't want to knock Greg, but his best tourney showing was third at a Foxwoods event before this.

And you don't think the "pros" have the same tourney experience as an online player? What they can't afford computers? Im willing to bet that every single "pro" out there practice their tourney skills online quite frequently.