Blind defense against good player - KJs - Page 4

#31 10-07-2005, 10:18 PM

I see you've given a lot of thought to this and that's cool.

A few things still seemed to go unnoticed.

What ever happened to "charging your opponent preflop because you have the best hand right now"? What if you are dominating him ? Your hand beats so much of his range from the button. Also, out of all the times he has you beat with an ace high, his kicker will be lower than your jack, and your hand will play better post flop anyway. The preflop equity when raising is huge against a button raiser will play A2o+. Put yourself in the button's shoes for a minute and think of all the times you've been 3-bet on your steals. On average, do you like it? How do you like playing A4o after being 3-bet when the flop is Q98 or T82 or 987? The truth is, if you don't flop an ace, you usually have worries.

I'm not saying I am 100% right about 3-betting that hand in this spot. I just wanna to throw out some food for thought.

StellarWind · #32 10-07-2005, 10:24 PM

Lots of good responses. I'm still reading.

Have to run but here's something that people are overlooking. It is awesome to hit a worse hand with the turn checkraise. This is a big win case for the play.

1. 3-6 outs wiped away if he folds.

2. He may be a straight draw or flush draw and have to put more money in drawing short.

3. Why do you assume that my KJ beats (e.g.) his JT? Are you sure that he won't fire the third barrel? Are you calling the river unimproved, especially if a tough card comes? He bets a lot of rivers. Putting him away now could prevent a winning bluff. Or be a better use of money than calling the river if you think that way.

#33 10-07-2005, 10:29 PM

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ok. but the question still remains. i had a discussion with another player about "fancy moves" like this the other day, and his comment was that you HAVE to follow through on the river if you are making a move.

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Who says you have to follow through?

First of all KJ high with an ace on the board is hardly a 'move'. If you get called, you're losing. Point blank. If he's on a draw and folds, you were winning anyway. The great 'move' you just made to get him to fold was probably not even a bluff.

Second, if you raise the turn on a move with whatever you have and a guy who will only call with top pair or better (and you know this) happens to call, why throw in good money after bad on the river? Your move missed when the guy called.

I like semi-bluffs from time to time, but I wouldn't recommend semi-bluffs with nut no pair too often. If the guy folds, you did a great job; if he calls, you have to hit.

PokerBob · #34 10-07-2005, 10:47 PM

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Who says you have to follow through?

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some idiot i know. but this may be a special case with the A on the board. what happens if a K or J hits the river?

wheelz · #35 10-07-2005, 10:52 PM

you bet

NLSoldier · #36 10-07-2005, 10:52 PM

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you bet

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if the river is a total brick?

uh oh. this could be a rare disagreement.

wheelz · #37 10-07-2005, 11:07 PM

no, pokerbob asked:

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what happens if a K or J hits the river?

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come on, we don't disagree.

NLSoldier · #38 10-07-2005, 11:08 PM

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no, pokerbob asked:

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what happens if a K or J hits the river?

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come on, we don't disagree.

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sweetjazz · #39 10-07-2005, 11:47 PM

How likely are you going to be in blind battles with this player? Is the table semi-tight and are you planning on playing for a while?

If so, being caught bluff raising when there's an A on board could set you to get paid off when villain is drawing slim in a similar situation when you do have the A. Not sure that this factor is enough to sway your decision, but you should definitely keep it in mind the rest of the decision once you do decide to raise.

BTW, I'm not sure I like the flop call. The problem is that the flop looks to drawy, so I think villain is going to fire again a lot on the turn, and even if he checks behind, is often doing so with A high planning to call a river bet in case you missed your draw. (Maybe I'm giving too much credit to your villain, but from how you described him, he might be capable of making such plays.)

StellarWind · #40 10-08-2005, 02:53 AM

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What ever happened to "charging your opponent preflop because you have the best hand right now"?

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Reread my earlier post where I discuss this. KJs is not a great heads up hand. You cannot charge him for playing because you have no appreciable advantage in pot equity. Meanwhile he has the button and the capping privilege.