AA slaughtered

Allinlife · #1 06-30-2005, 09:40 PM

no particualr read on Villan, just few orbits..but he seemed pretty loose...how bad was river fold? I just hate playing overpairs OOP with inflated pot on drawy board :'( any advice?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($513.3)
Button ($596)
Hero ($478.6)
BB ($375.1)
UTG ($467)
MP ($640.9)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
2 folds, CO calls $4, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $14, 1 fold, CO calls $12.

Flop: ($36) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $25, CO calls $25.

Turn: ($86) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $60, Hero calls $60.

River: ($206) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $104, CO raises to $208, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $518

tiger_style · #2 06-30-2005, 09:53 PM

i got pissed off and made a call in a spot like this on the river a few days ago. guy had a busted draw.

he proceeded to try the same min raise river bluff three more times. i also have caught other people doing it.

partyyyyyyyy pokerrrrrrrrrrrrr

AZK · #3 06-30-2005, 09:55 PM

you really don't think you are good here 20% of the time?

Edit: Why bet the river, if you will fold to a minraise? Check/call to snap off/lose less.

Allinlife · #4 06-30-2005, 10:01 PM

yes..river was horrible...I would appreciate any advices on playing overpair OOP on drawy board..I have hard time determining whether or not to bet hard to give bad odds to draw on or to check and hope to keep the pot small?

any commenets on turn play?

cortjstr · #5 06-30-2005, 10:20 PM

I think your turn play was bad for several reasons. Since he called you on the flop..if you want to check to him on the turn and he bets out then you have to give him credit for the straight(I think most people would just take the free card here if they were on a draw). He's also not showing any fear of the check raise. Perhaps you should have reversed you bets and bet the turn. Then check the river...this would have saved you some money if he comes out firing....just my opinion..

CourtesyFlush · #6 06-30-2005, 10:25 PM

Personally I think this hand was well played. I like the bet on the end has a value/blocking bet. I like the fold as well, I can't see him playing a hand this way that you're beating.

Kirkrrr · #7 06-30-2005, 10:30 PM

Why check the turn? A loose player in position a lot of times will call the flop with nothing much (the stacks are deep enough) hoping you'll give up on the turn and he can take the pot, call with a draw and fold the turn to a strong bet, or raise the turn if he does gave a legitimate hand. The only legitimate hand that the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might have helped is a gutshot draw, so I don't see it as being a scare card.

I'd bet 2/3xPot on the turn. If raised, you're facing a decision. If he just smooth-calls, check the river with the intention of calling if the odds are there, such as 5:1 that you were getting. I'd expect you win here easily 2 out of 3.

my 2c
Kirk R.

CourtesyFlush · #8 06-30-2005, 10:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you really don't think you are good here 20% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

What hand are you putting the opponent on that the hero beats? AJ that is thinking the hero raised out of the SB with KJ-QJ? Or KK-QQ that didn't raise preflop? I think the vast majority of his hand range beats the hero.

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Why bet the river, if you will fold to a minraise? Check/call to snap off/lose less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the opponent but I think you're losing value to a Jack with good kicker that will check the river. If checking how big of a bet are you willing to call?

cero_z · #9 07-01-2005, 12:02 AM

Hi Allinlife,

[ QUOTE ]
yes..river was horrible...I would appreciate any advices on playing overpair OOP on drawy board..I have hard time determining whether or not to bet hard to give bad odds to draw on or to check and hope to keep the pot small?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, this isn't that draw-heavy of a board: the flush draw is backdoor, there was only one possible open-ended straight draw (and one dbb) on the flop, neither of which is likely given the button limp/call your raise line.

The cards you didn't want to see on the turn were a J, followed by T and 9--anything else is OK. I like to bet the pot or just under it (but substantially more than half)on flops like this, because a lot of folks won't call that much with just a gut-shot, but will call with top pair.

No reason to check that turn card unless you're check-raising, and even then it's a bad idea unless your opponent is very aggressive (because he could've called with a gut-shot and picked up an open-ender). Here, you can bet only 2/3 pot or so, and be safely denying him the implied odds he needs to call without a big draw.

Getting min-raised on the river usually means one pair is no good, but you ought to pay off another 104 or whatever.

The overall mistake you made in this hand was seeing monsters under the bed when you held a very strong hand; sure you might be beat, but this is a pretty nice board for AA, really.

cero_z · #10 07-01-2005, 12:03 AM

Also, you only have one opponent, so it's not likely that he has the specific draw that came in, anyway. This is important.