dealin' with a fishy table and one very fishy fish

J. Stew · #1 06-22-2005, 06:53 PM

No read on fishy fish. . . utg was strangely passive (didn't raise pf with AQ suited, then called the whole hand when Ace, rag, rag flopped and nothing scary came on turn and 5th) The whole table played any Ax offsuit and weird utg made me passive this hand.

Should have raised the flop?
Should have raised the turn when utg folded?

When fishy fish led out into 6 players it put me on the defensive. . . should I raise him back after most folded on the flop even with strange passive utg calling again?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB :#A500AF(fishy fish)/ checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, fishy fish bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
fishy fish bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
fishy fish bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

tewall · #2 06-22-2005, 06:58 PM

I like the way you played it. If you were closer to ff, raising on the flop would be good to protect your hand, but as it is, raising would not knock anybody out. For a raise to be correct against one opponent after UTG folds, you would have to expect to be ahead more than one-half of the time he called you. You have no reason to expect this to be the case.

turaho · #3 06-22-2005, 07:07 PM

If I was in your shoes (in position with only one caller--a rock at that--between me and the flop bettor), I'd raise the flop, bet the turn if checked to, and check through the river UI.

I'd fold if the flop gets 3-bet or someone else leads the turn. I'd also dump it if I'm check-raised on the turn.

KeysrSoze · #4 06-22-2005, 07:07 PM

Raise the river?

nomadtla · #5 06-22-2005, 07:15 PM

I'd like to see a raise in there somewhere I think the flop is the place for it. It may not have changed things much but It makes little kids cry when you don't raise top pair on a fish.

johnc · #6 06-22-2005, 07:22 PM

Pf call ok, raise is read dependant, no reads- no raise.
Flop: Raise this one. Two reasons: 1) you have more outs than your eight, you have a backdoor flush and single gapped bd str8 both not worth much by themselves but added to the 8 outs your hand is much better than you think, 2) you can't be 100% sure you're behind. If these donks are as passive as you say then they could have all kinds of things: PP, middle or low pair, a gutshot drawv - there's too many plausible hands they could have. A raise on the flop would have much better defined your hand and most importantly forced the decision upon him not you.
Turn: call's fine
River: call's fine

I find these weak types very hard to read but on the turn, I believe he's made his hand and you might be behind but not enough times to fold.

J. Stew · #7 06-22-2005, 07:28 PM

Yeah I can see the flop raise now, thanks. Fishy fish turned over . . . 4 3 offsuit . . . can you feel my head getting hot?

nomadtla · #8 06-22-2005, 07:32 PM

ughhh gotta love those fish. Though if they didn't get lucky from time to time they'd probably stop giving you money