#1
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FPS or well played?
This is a hand I played last night in a very good, fairly
loose passive 20-40 game at Bay 101. To me, the hand stood out as a little odd, and I would like some feedback on whether you thought it was played well or if you think I was trying to find some excuses for making some fancy plays. Anyway, here it is: 9 handed, fairly loose game. UTG folds. I am next with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and limp. The action is folded to a solid player in middle position, who is a little on the loose side. He raises. His preflop raises have not been out of line, but they do not necessarily mean big pairs, either. He has been raising with big cards, as well as wired pairs. The action is folded around to the blinds, who both call. Four to the flop. The flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and the action is checked to me. I bet. MP raises. This player is capable of raising with big cards here to buy a free turn and drive the other players out. The blinds fold, and I call, with the intent of betting any turn that is not an ace. If I get raised on a blank turn, I can be almost 100% sure he has an overpair to my 8s. If I get called, I think there is a very high chance that my hand is best, although there are quite a few turn cards which may make him afraid to raise an overpair, such as a 6, a 7, an 8, or a heart. Heads up to the turn. The turn brings the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Whoops. To be perfectly honest, I was not anticipating improving on the turn. But going along with my original plan, I bet. If he raises me there, I plan to call and bet any river. I think that this player is capable of folding an overpair to a 3-bet on the turn, and I would like to get one more bet out of him if I can. If he just calls, I plan to bet a heart, 6, or 7 on the river, as these cards may scare him into checking behind with a hand he otherwise would have bet. I will try to checkraise any other card. He may bet AK here hoping I will fold a busted flush draw that picked up a small pair, and he will definately bet an overpair. He may also make a total bluff with something like KQ, hoping I will fold an ace high flush draw that missed or a small pair. He thinks for a minute, smiling at himself. He appears to be amused by the situation. Finally he weakly calls. I can tell that he hopes that I have a heart draw. The river brings the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Check check, he shows AK. So was this hand played well, or was my reasoning totally wrong in one or more spots? |
#2
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Re: FPS or well played?
Preflop: I think it's a little early to be coming in with that 98s, but if the game is loose passive, okay. What you don't want to happen is to have to take it up against AK out of position for 2 bets when it is not a multiway pot.
Flop: looks fine. Turn: I think I go for the checkraise here, he has position on you and got the pot heads up with his flop raise, so he will probably fire again. Betting is okay though. River: You need to bet this. You have been leading all along, so he his probably going to be happy to showdown his AK for free. If you think he puts you on a heart draw, like you said, then he may even call a bet with just ace high seeing as hearts didn't get there. He may also check through hands like 66, 77, TT on the river that would have called a bet. Bet the river. |
#3
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Re: FPS or well played?
Preflop: I really like this hand in a loose/passive game.
Flop: Good. Bet into the raiser hoping for a reraise to knock out 4 cards to your right. Turn plan: Consider calling down. You know he is gonna bet if you let him, let him do your betting. You limit your exposure, you reduce the risk of out-thinking yourself. However, I understand the desire to bet to get him to fold 6 outs. Turn action: Dude, chk/rz. Don't steal his thunder, he's raised you on the flop, give him a chance to buy the pot here. After chk/rzing, I lead the river too. River: Uh, what are you doing? Going for a chk/rz? You've already given him cause to be suspicious, what hands would he possibly bet here? However, because he is suspicious, he might call a bet, thinking you might have a draw. Bet it out, man, he's a solid player and given the strength you've shown, he'll likely not bet anything less than eights with a better kicker. CSC |
#4
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Re: FPS or well played?
Not in love with the preflop limp but lets get by it. Flop is fine. Turn is an easy checkraise. If he checks behind on the turn he has overcards and its not the end of the world since he is drawing dead unless he also has hearts. He will often call your river bet as well if you miss your CR thinking you are bluffing your missed draw. The way you played it the river check is pretty awful.
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#5
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Re: FPS or well played?
[ QUOTE ]
River: You need to bet this. You have been leading all along, so he his probably going to be happy to showdown his AK for free. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, he will be very happy to show down his AK for free. But that does not mean that I should bet. If he will not call a bet with AK, I lose nothing by checking. [ QUOTE ] He may also check through hands like 66, 77, TT on the river that would have called a bet. [/ QUOTE ] He would not have raised before the flop with 66 or 77, and he very likely would have bet the river with 99-AA. |
#6
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Re: FPS or well played?
[ QUOTE ]
River: Uh, what are you doing? Going for a chk/rz? You've already given him cause to be suspicious, what hands would he possibly bet here? [/ QUOTE ] He would bet 99-AA, KQ, AQ, and possibly AK and AJ. [ QUOTE ] he'll likely not bet anything less than eights with a better kicker. [/ QUOTE ] He would bet a lot of hands I beat. In fact, the only hand that he could possibly hold which beats me is QQ. |
#7
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Re: FPS or well played?
[ QUOTE ]
Turn is an easy checkraise. If he checks behind on the turn he has overcards and its not the end of the world since he is drawing dead unless he also has hearts. [/ QUOTE ] No, it is not the end of the world, but it would still be nice to get a bet out of him if I can. He is also capable of folding an overpair to a checkraise, and definately will not call a checkraise with overcards, so I get at least the same amount from overcards, and probably overpairs, by betting as I would by checking. [ QUOTE ] He will often call your river bet as well if you miss your CR thinking you are bluffing your missed draw. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps, but how does this get me more money than betting the turn? |
#8
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Re: FPS or well played?
There seem to be a couple of things on which people so far
have agreed, but I would like to clear some things up. First, this player is not betting the turn with overcards, so checkraising him if he holds something like AK is out. Even if he would bet them, check calling makes more sense in this situation as he certainly will not call a checkraise with them. He would even have a hard time calling a checkraise with an overpair. He might call a bet with overcards, though. Second, it has been suggested that I bet the river here as AK might look me up, hoping for a busted flush draw. But I very much doubt that this player would call me here with AK. He might, I will not say that it would be impossible. But a lot of people call the turn with AK, with the combined hope that, on the river, either the bettor misses a draw and checks, or that he catches an A or K and that it is good enough to win. When neither of these two things happens, he often folds to a river bet. And since this player will most likely bet 100% of the hands with which he will call a bet, and I only lose to one of them (QQ), I felt that a checkraise was in order. I lose nothing by checking instead of betting when he has a hand with which he would not have called a bet anyway. Finally, it has also been said that I should checkraise the turn. But, as I have already mentioned, he either checks behind, or folds to a checkraise a high percentage of the times that I do this. It is certainly possible that I grossly misplayed this hand. You guys just have not yet convinced me of it. Please keep trying, but also keep in mind the things I have mentioned above while doing so. Edit: I also wanted to mention that many people seem to be basing an argument on betting the river so that AK does not get a free showdown, but I would like to point out that AK only accounts for a fraction of the hands he could hold here. |
#9
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Re: FPS or well played?
[ QUOTE ]
He would even have a hard time calling a checkraise with an overpair. [/ QUOTE ] Then you need to start bluff raising him more often. |
#10
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Re: FPS or well played?
[ QUOTE ]
Then you need to start bluff raising him more often. [/ QUOTE ] This is a very loose passive game. I do not get an opportunity to be heads up with him on the turn very often. Since he is only a couple seats to my left, usually he has position on me, so I would have to checkraise him. Since there are a bunch of loose players in between us, they would already have called one bet and even if he folds, they will call another one. The opportunity to bluff raise him does not come often, but I was keeping it in mind in case the situation came up. |
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