San Francisco: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, all I can do at this moment, personally, is adopt the same position that those guys in blue are taking, and with overhwelming majority, practically in every city and every state of the U.S.

Cops are in favor of severe restrictions on handgun ownership.

[/ QUOTE ]

The San Francisco Police Officers Association came out against the ban:


POA Opposes Proposition H:
San Francisco’s Gun Ban InitiativeOctober 2005

By Michael Nevin, Jr.
Southern Station

The San Francisco Gun Ban Initiative (Proposition H) will appear on the next election ballot in November. Several supervisors have touted the ban as a step in curbing violence and increasing public safety. The San Francisco Police Officers Association (POA), representing men and women dedicated to a life of service to public safety, must evaluate any legislative effort affecting its membership. After careful review and analysis, the POA does not support the proposed ballot initiative that would nullify the personal choice of city residents to lawfully possess a handgun for selfdefense purposes.

The Handgun Ban
The proposed ordinance would prohibit San Francisco residents from possessing any handgun, and they would have 90 days to relinquish their property. The sale, manufacture, and distribution of firearms would be prohibited. Visitors to the city would not be subject to the ban if they are in compliance with applicable laws. Police officers and members of the military would also be exempt while “carrying out the functions of his or her government employment.” And it should be noted that no exemption for retired members of our association or other law enforcement agencies is stated in the proposal.

The role members of the police department, represented by the POA, will play in any door-to-door gun confiscation scheme is cause for concern.

Nearly 22,000 handguns have been purchased by residents since 1996, according to the state attorney general’s office.[1] But there is no way to determine how many total guns exist because local governments are forbidden under state law from requiring firearms to be registered or licensed.
It is unclear what database the city would utilize to track San Franciscans who have lawfully purchased handguns.

National Statistics and Studies Do Not Favor the Handgun Ban Argument

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, conducted from 1993 through 2001, violent crime declined 54%; weapon violence was down 59%, and firearm violence decreased by 63%.[2]
A study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control released in 2003 found no proof to support the claim that gun-control laws are effective in preventing violence. The task force found firearms-related injuries declined since 1993 despite approximately 4.5 million new firearms sold each year.[3]
In December of 2004, the National Academy of Sciences released the findings of a study: “Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review.” “Current research and data on firearms and violent crime are too weak to support strong conclusions about the effects of various measures to prevent and control gun violence,” according to the panel.[4]
Guns are used defensively, according to some estimates, more than 2 million times annually – four times more than the estimated use of a gun in commission of a crime.[5]
Case Study—Washington D.C.

Washington D.C. provides a glimpse into gun prohibition after it banned handguns in 1976. How successful has our nation’s capital been in reducing violence? D.C. has consistently been dubbed “Murder Capital U.S.A.,” dating back to the early 1990s. The Department of Justice found that guns accounted for 80 percent of Washington D.C.’s homicides between 1985 and 1994.[6] With a murder rate nearly 8 times the national rate, it is clear that something is not working. [7] Washington D.C. had a homicide rate of 44.2 per 100,000 population in 2003, while San Francisco had a homicide rate of 8.9 per 100,000 in 2003.
D.C. had more than double the overall violent crime rate when compared to San Francisco in 2003.[8]
FBI Uniform Crime Report— San Francisco

In 1995 San Francisco had a population of 738,371. There were 99 homicides and 10,903 violent crimes.
In 2003 San Francisco had a population of 772,065. There were 69 homicides and 5,725 violent crimes.
From 1995 through 2003, the homicide rate decreased by 33.3% and the violent crime rate decreased by 49.8% in San Francisco.
Although San Francisco had an unusual number of homicides, 88, in 2004, the city has averaged 71 homicides each year over the past decade. 63 of the homicides in 2004 involved a firearm.[9]
Societal Problem Not a Gun Problem
We need to look no further than across the bay in Oakland to find anecdotal evidence highlighting the need for citizens to have lifesaving options when facing violent encounters. Patrick McCullough has spent a decade reporting drug dealers to police. He is the face of the law-abiding citizen who lives with urban terror. When McCullough shot and wounded someone he believed was posing a threat to him, the Alameda County D.A.’s office found that McCullough acted in self-defense.[10] McCullough may not live in a gated community or be able to afford armed bodyguards, but he has an inalienable right to defend himself and his family.

Jeff Weise, 16, killed his grandfather, who happened to be a retired police officer, before stealing his guns and going on a killing spree on the Red Lake Indian reservation in Minnesota. “Everything that kid did that day, practically from the moment he walked out of his bedroom, was a felony,” said Joe Olson, a Hamline University law professor and president of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance.

Olson concluded, “I don’t think any gun-control laws would have made a difference.”[11]

To believe that the proposed handgun ban would have an impact on handgun violence, one would have to assume that criminals would actually abide by the new law. After all, criminals are undoubtedly responsible for the high crime rates and firearm violence. Considering the very definition of a criminal, it would be hard to imagine that such enlightenment would occur. In fact, both reason and empirical research suggest that most criminals are attracted to places where they meet less resistance.

Guns and Violence—A Law Enforcement Approach The proposed handgun ban initiative states: “The presence of handguns poses a significant threat to the safety of San Franciscans.” In reality, the presence of criminals in possession of any firearm poses a significant threat to the safety of all Americans. Guns are nothing more than a tool that if in the wrong hands will hurt innocent people. 9/11, the worst terrorist attack on American soil, proved that box cutters and deadly intentions could be as dangerous as almost any weapon in a military arsenal.

Proactive law enforcement targeting crime-infested neighborhoods has been the most effective method in curbing the violence. The S.F.P.D., in conjunction with federal authorities, has established a gun task force known as “Triggerlock II.” A police department bulletin explains: “‘Triggerlock II’ is committed to disarming violent criminals and reducing gun violence by identifying the most dangerous offenders and referring them for prosecution under state and federal firearm violations.”[12]

When homicides in San Francisco surged in the first half of 2004, the Gang Task Force and other specialized units of the police department stepped up and cut the homicide rate by 40 percent in the second half of the year. According to an article in the San Francisco Chronicle: “The most important factor in the decline, police say, is authorities’ attempt to take those they consider the most violent, incorrigible criminals off the streets with the help of the federal ‘Triggerlock’ law, which provides for prison terms of 10 years or more for felons who are caught with a gun.”[13]

A targeted response to violent crime coupled with tough state legislation such as “Three Strikes” ensures that predators are not in a position to wreak havoc on society. The District Attorney has made it clear that she will aggressively prosecute anyone using firearms in the commission of a crime and/or found to be in unlawful possession of a firearm.

Cities across the nation that employ a “zero tolerance” approach to violent crime are reaping the benefits. New York City, which leads the way in policing tactics such as CompStat, saw its peak of 2,245 murders in 1990 drop to 571 in 2004. Chicago, the nation’s murder capital in 2003 with 598 homicides and a city that banned handguns in 1982, watched as homicides in 2004 fell to 447. Police in the Windy City credited the Targeted Response Unit that saturates areas known for gang violence.[14]

While the handgun ban initiative does a good job in circumventing the Second Amendment, it does little to address the deeper cultural issues of crime and violence. Random or targeted acts of violence personally affect the law enforcement community. Those dedicated to public service understand that we need to support any reasonable effort to stem the tide of violent encounters threatening citizens and law enforcement alike. However, good intentions don’t necessarily make good law. Disarming law-abiding citizens is not the answer.

Guns and Civil Liberties
The Pink Pistols, the largest national Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender organization dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community, has a San Francisco chapter and is outraged by the proposed handgun ban. “The idea is to make the people better, so they don’t commit the crimes, or if you can’t do that, at least stop them when they do. A gun is the law-abiding citizen’s best tool to stop the criminal in his tracks,” states Gwen Patton, International Media Spokesperson for the Pink Pistols.[15]

San Francisco has a storied reputation as a stronghold of personal liberty. The Bill of Rights explicitly refers to rights of individuals, not rights of government. And most San Franciscans are not in favor of allowing government to be in the business of abrogating civil liberties.

No Constitutional Right to Police Protection In DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dept. of Social Services (1989), the United States Supreme Court held that the state has no constitutional obligation to protect citizens from private violence.[16]

California Government Code section 845 states, in part: “Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service.”

Since even the fastest calls for service (9-1-1) are measured in minutes rather than seconds, how does a law enforcement agency explain to victims of violent crime that the agency sup-ported efforts denying them reasonable means of self-defense? That’s a tall order.

Conclusion
Police officers and members of the military would also be exempt while “carrying out the functions of his or her government employment.” But does this mean that San Francisco police officers or F.B.I. agents living in San Francisco would be forced to leave their weapons at the office upon the completion of their shift? The danger associated with that scenario is unfathomable. And it should be noted that no exemption for retired members of our association or other law enforcement is stated in the proposal.

Italian criminologist Cesare Beccaria wrote in 1764: “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. …Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”[17] Doesn’t this ring true today?

When we disarm honest, law-abiding citizens, we contribute to empowering criminals and endangering society-at-large. The San Francisco Police Officers Association supports the right of our members (active and retired), neighbors, and law-abiding citizens in this city to choose reasonable means of self-defense while in their homes or businesses. We oppose Proposition H, the S.F. Gun Ban Initiative.

[1] Curtis, Kim, “San Francisco, frustrated by rising homicides, tries handgun ban,” Associated Press, 1/19/05
[2] “Weapon Use and Violent Crime, 1993-2001,” National Crime Victimization Survey, U.S. Department of Justice
[ 3 ] Wa shing ton Times, E d itor ia l, 10/7/03
[4] “Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review,” National Academy of Sciences, 12/16/04
[5] Lott, John, “Lottery Numbers: Why don’t media cover the good-news stories,” Philadelphia Inquirer, 8/1/03 (Note: estimates are as high as 2.5 million times annually for defensive uses based on research by Gary Kleck, Criminologist)
[6] Ryan, Joan, “Guns are a bad idea, but so is ban,” San Francisco Chronicle, 12/23/04
[7] Crime in the States, 2003, Federal Bureau of Investigation
[8] Ibid
[9] Curtis
[10] Lee, Henry, “DA’s office clears man who shot teen neighbor,” San Francisco Chronicle, 3/17/05
[11] Diaz, Kevin, “Red Lake shootings ignite scant debate,” Sacramento Bee, 4/4/05
[12] S.F.P.D. Department Bulletin 05- 017, 2/7/05
[13] Van Derbeken, Jaxon, “Heading off homicide,” San Francisco Chronicle, 12/23/04
[14] Bone, James, “US murder rate sinks as zero tolerance puts gangs on run,” Times Online, 1/3/05
[15] “Pink Pistols Angered, but Not Surprised, by SF Gun Ban Plans,” Pink Pistols Press Release, 1/3/05
[16] SCOTUS: DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. Dep. of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989)
[17] Polsby, Daniel and Dennis Breenen, “Taking at Gun Control,” Heartland Policy Study, 10/30/95

[renodoc]

BTW, I have read Reason for years and suggest all the posters on this forum at least read through one issue for a reference point. They publish stuff that will piss off the right and the left.

[jcx]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were living in France tonight, I'd be on a rooftop. I'd use my gun. If what's happening in France were happening in the US, I believe it would have been stopped long before now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not recommended. You'd be spending a long time in the Bastile. Sad as it is, if you catch someone stealing your car or raping your wife at knifepoint in the UK or France and your only available weapon is a clandestinely owned handgun, you're best to just let him finish. You'll undoubtedly do more time than he will, whether you actually shoot him or not.

Those who blindly put all trust in the police to protect them in time of crisis in the end get what they deserve. From the Watts riots to the Katrina aftermath in N.O. to the current rabble rousing in Paris, there is ample proof that police are either unable, unwilling or just flat out incompetent when charged with protecting life and property in genuine emergencies. People can ignore this of course, as such events are unlikely in their respective cubbyholes. I'll hold on to my gun all the same.

[Thunderpig]

Finally...a good reason to ban guns...a chance to visit upon those people the pain they visit upon us for their ridiculous political agenda

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
"From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent."

But the handgun law wasn't passed until 1997. Clearly other factors are at work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guns are being brought into the country illegally from Eastern Europe. If we had no guns in the country, then deaths by shooting would be zero.

We had massive numbers of immigrants from Bosnia, Kosovo, Serbia, etc, during this time, gangs took the opportunity to come over here and make some money out of the situation.

Mack

[InchoateHand]

Do you guys really think rape at gunpoint is a frequent occurance? I'd love to see some statistics that say it is. Also, the hysteria over "criminals flocking to San Franscisco" is just ridiculous. The vast majority of "crime" is local crime of opportunity---why do you think East St. Louis is such a hellhole, when its denizens could drive five miles to one of the nice neighboorhoods in the country and rob the inhabitants?


Also, a fun little fact that gets lost in the random distribution of statistics--if indeed, they are from reputable sources (highly debatable): correlation isn't causation.

[jj_frap]

I oppose gun control.

Progressive, pro-freedom people should learn how to use guns, as the rednecks, the fundamentalist wackos, and the bigots are not afraid to fire a bullet.

[jcx]

My main point was that the police can not be counted on for protection and that those willing to cede total sovereignity over their personal protection to the government are making a mistake. Others may disagree, as is their perogative.

[slamdunkpro]

Who cares, Even Mayor Gavin Newsom, a strong supporter of gun control, said, the ban "clearly will be thrown out [in court]... It's really just a public opinion poll at the end of the day."

The whole thing was a colossal waste of space.

[phage]

If the people of Texas can vote to ban gay marriage, why shouldn't the people of San Francisco be allowed to vote on a Firearms ban...