Now I know what its like to play against me - Page 8

davidross · #71 10-19-2005, 05:00 PM

well, i've read every reply now and I can say with a high degree of confidence that I clearly can't think to the same depth as most of you, but for what it's worth here are my thoughts,

1) I'd love to know if he's just called from the BB before, because I find uber-aggressive's like to re-raise with a lot of hands, and just call with monsters and the weaker holdings. I don't think you can rule out AA or KK here just because he called pre-flop.

2) I'm not overly concerned about free cards here, If he's on clubs, he's coming anyway, so if they get there, we're done, we're not getting him to fold. If he's got the K, same story, I'm not going to believe he has it so I'm losing some chips there too. AQ is the hand that would worry me the most if I was to check this flop.

3) Based on that, and my desire not to go out on this hand I think I check the flop and call any turn or river bets, hoping to keep the pot small and just use my position, and reads.

MLG · #72 10-19-2005, 05:01 PM

He's not coming over the top small on a semi-bluff or with a real hand, he's pushing. maybe everybody doesnt play this way, but this player does, and im fairly confident in my read.

Che · #73 10-19-2005, 05:01 PM

Have you established a consistent cont bet size (or at least a range)?

My normal range is 60-90% of pot. I would tend toward the high end on this flop so that the villain has to make a big commitment to c-r me.

My mind is swimming a little after reading so many replies, but I think a lot of people have said bet 1/2 pot. I really dislike that approach with this hand just as much as I disliked it in "Hand with the Masters II" - aggro villain's reaction to the bet just doesn't tell us much IMHO.

Since this is such a tough hand to play, I probably won't have anything to add after you reply to my question, Mike, but I thought I'd ask anyway since your table image and how you use it on this hand could make a big difference.

Later,
Che

locutus2002 · #74 10-19-2005, 05:01 PM

It's going to be pretty suspicious if hero doesn't fire a continuation bet given his image.

If hero checks behind and raises the turn (when villain bets) hero could lose alot of chips if villain has a K (its not that credible for hero to check the king if he had it).

Hero needs to either reduce the number of continuation bets that he makes, or fire another round here and take your medicine if villain decides to c/r you.

Sluss · #75 10-19-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Feels to me, like we are using a lot of fancy thinking to give him a free card

[/ QUOTE ]
I think your right. We're spending so much time trying to get the last bet in on him we are letting him catch cards that could really hurt us.

MLG · #76 10-19-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) I'd love to know if he's just called from the BB before, because I find uber-aggressive's like to re-raise with a lot of hands, and just call with monsters and the weaker holdings. I don't think you can rule out AA or KK here just because he called pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question, his aggression was mostly post flop. For whatever reason this table had very little preflop reraising going on.

[ QUOTE ]
Based on that, and my desire not to go out on this hand I think I check the flop and call any turn or river bets, hoping to keep the pot small and just use my position, and reads

[/ QUOTE ]

Ideally I'd like to play it this way too, but this villain IMO wont let me. If I just call a turn bet ill be facing a pot sized river bet.

MLG · #77 10-19-2005, 05:06 PM

Usually its about 2/3 pot and Ive done it maybe 80% of hands ive raised preflop.

davidross · #78 10-19-2005, 05:07 PM

If I just call a turn bet ill be facing a pot sized river bet

So if I( believe he'll do it with a hand I can beat I'll call him in both places. I don't see how you get around it, and this way would seem to win you more chips when you're ahead.

Sluss · #79 10-19-2005, 05:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Usually its about 2/3 pot and Ive done it maybe 80% of hands ive raised preflop.

[/ QUOTE ] This is kind of why I like a weak lead here maybe only 2000. If villain is paying attention he is going to be really puzzled by this bet. Which could make him a)fold b)call and check turn c)re-raise small and muck to an over push.

I am just thinking about how much this line would befuddle me.

Che · #80 10-19-2005, 05:15 PM

Then bet 3200 and call the push...unless the 20% you've checked behind have been flopped monsters you eventually showed down in which case I check behind cuz that looks stronger. I can't imagine you playing that way intentionally, though, so that line would only make sense in rare cases created by oddball circumstances.

The problem with this is that you're either way behind or slightly ahead. However, I don't mind gambling in this situation (short stack with FT approaching but not close) plus there's a decent amount of dead money by the time you make the call.

Later,
Che