blind battle

[wheelz]

villain seems reasonable after a few orbits.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ?

[cartman]

I would check-fold here. It looks like he has to have a flush draw, a straight draw (including a gutshot), or a pair. If he called the flop with just overcards he wouldn't have called with them on the turn when an Ace hit. He may very well check behind you with any of these hands and I think you might be surprised just how often your hand will be good. Your Q high beats almost any busted draw on this board.

If he will automatically bet when checked to then I think betting becomes much more appealing, but I would probably still check-fold.

What do you think?

Cartman

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
If he will automatically bet when checked to then I think betting becomes much more appealing

[/ QUOTE ]
You should think a little more about that statement.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he will automatically bet when checked to then I think betting becomes much more appealing

[/ QUOTE ]
You should think a little more about that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it sounds nonsensical and I think our disagreement is with your opinion that we have zero folding equity and that there are some busted draws that he will fold. If you take my perspective on the prospects that he will fold, then I think my statement above makes perfect sense under the assumption that I wouldn't under any circumstances check-call this river. In other words checking is an implicit concession on my part because he will always bet and I will always fold.

Cartman

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he will automatically bet when checked to then I think betting becomes much more appealing

[/ QUOTE ]
You should think a little more about that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it sounds nonsensical and I think our disagreement is with your opinion that we have zero folding equity and that there are some busted draws that he will fold. If you take my perspective on the prospects that he will fold, then I think my statement above makes perfect sense under the assumption that I wouldn't under any circumstances check-call this river. In other words checking is an implicit concession on my part because he will always bet and I will always fold.

Cartman

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this, Cartman. If you know villain will automatically bet the river when you check, why isn't that an argument in favor of check/calling?

I actually think the best play is check/fold, but I disagree that the villain's tendency to bluff at the river is a factor in favor of betting the river yourself.

[Poldi]

[ QUOTE ]
under the assumption that I wouldn't under any circumstances check-call this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really bad. Why handicap yourself? If you know he will bluff all of his busted draws check-calling is clearly the best option as he will fold his bluffs to your bet and check-folding you would fold the best hand too often.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
This is really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. I went braindead on this issue yesterday. If betting the river won't fold a better hand and won't get a call out of a worse hand then betting is crazy. I don't know what I was thinking.

I still think that check-fold is the only play here unless we know that villain will automatically bet when checked to, then I don't know.

Your favorite moron,
Cartman

[paco]

It looks to me like he got a small piece. I think if he was reasonable he would play back at you with good oesd or fd. I think you will see a small pair here enough to make a check-fold correct. As cart says, he might check it down with his busted draw, especially if he is passive enough to just try to hit and not play it strongly HU.

tough spot. i hate hands like these.


i assume once he gets to the river in this spot, he's taking pretty much any pair to showdown so it's not like you can really bluff anything off the pot here.

either he's got a piece and is calling down or he's got a busted draw. given that, i think betting here sucks, imo.

it's close between check/calling and check/folding and i'm leaning towards check/folding.

i really dunno, i'd expect flush draws, oesds and pairs to raise the flop. maybe you are good here 1 in 6?

Would I sound like an idiot if I said Bet?