Broadway + flush redraw on a paired board.

GooperMC · #1 07-31-2005, 09:11 PM

$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo (5 handed)

Hero ($48.45)
BB ($20.11)
UTG+1 ($25)
LP2 ($25)
OTB ($24.15)

Hero posts small blind [$0.10].
BB posts big blind [$0.25].
UTG+1 posts big blind [$0.25].

Preflop: Hero is in BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
(1 check), (1 folds), OTB calls [$0.25], Hero calls [$0.15], (1 check)

Mediocre hand but worth a complete? 5 way both of my flush draws are probibly live.

Flop: ($1) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, OTB checks

I checked because a naked J has got to bet there. No bet probibly == no J

Turn: ($1) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
I bet pot, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, OTB re-pots.

Now I am a little suspicious. Why would a made boat re-pot there? He has position why not call and see if I will bet into him again on the river. Yet again this is the party $25 tables (which short handed are worse then normal) so my opponent may not be think much beyond "grunt I made a boat grunt".

This really feels like a naked J to me but am I willing to put my stack forward to find out? The problem is that if I am right I fairly large favorite but if I am wrong I am drawing dead.

This is the 3rd hand that this player has played so I have no read on him.

I don't play much short handed although I think I am going to start playing more so criticism on all streets are welcome and thoughts on what to do on the turn will be appreciated.

TGoldman · #2 07-31-2005, 10:42 PM

I'd play it the exact same way and fold on the turn. OTB very likely holds AJxx or AAxx. Your pot-sized bet on the turn is going to look scary to anyone not holding a full-house. OTB's willingness to raise tells me that he has a boat. Of course, you can never be certain at the $25 level, but even at that level most players understand that a paired board is to be feared and furthermore slowplaying a naked jack on the flop is too dangerous.

emptyshell · #3 08-01-2005, 02:02 PM

Turn raise feels like a boat to me. Possibly the same straight you have if he is a tricky, aggressive player that has a read on you, but most likely it's a boat.

With the pot so small, a good made boat (i.e. AJ, AA), might want to re-pot it so that he can get more money in there before showdown, hoping he's against a worse boat or some loose player that will call with just the straight.

sy_or_bust · #4 08-01-2005, 02:19 PM

You absolutely have to fold to the turn raise. You're drawing dead to any boat, which is Villain's most likely hand. If you call, you will usually face another pot bet on the river, when folding is still correct but terribly inconsistent.

Wintermute · #5 08-01-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This really feels like a naked J to me but am I willing to put my stack forward to find out?

[/ QUOTE ]

It sure looks like a full house... BUT, considering that (1) the pot is small--you're facing a $3 call into a $6 pot, right? (2) you have the table covered easily, and (3) something makes you suspicious here, I wouldn't say it's a disastrous idea to call and see what his river play is (maybe bet out $2 on the river as a blocking bet, this will work if the guy is scared his hand is no good). You certainly would not be "putting your stack" forward as you said. You'd be putting $3 out of $47.20 or whatever forward.

Certainly not a long-term strategy for success, but in this game, with these stack sizes, I don't think it's as ridiculous of an idea as it seems everyone else does.

gergery · #6 08-01-2005, 03:35 PM

I would not complete from SB preflop, and would fold the turn.

I would also think about check-calling on that board instead of betting the turn. I don't think you can go to war because AA, JJ, JT, AJ are all couples that are likely to get played.

If someone has a J, they are not likely to fold, and if they fill up then you'd have wanted a smaller pot, and if they had a J and didn't fill up, they are likely to bluff at it.

GooperMC · #7 08-01-2005, 05:04 PM

I did fold on the turn but I just wanted to make sure that I made the correct play. Against a full table I fold this in a heartbeat but I wasn’t so sure 5 handed. Also the villain in this hand dropped 2 buy ins in the next 40 hands making very aggressive plays with almost nothing. After watching him continually donating to the table I wondered if I incorrectly squandered my donation.

Thanks for the input.

Jim Morgan · #8 08-01-2005, 10:46 PM

I cannot understand calling in the SB with this hand unless you were going all in. There are VERY few flops you will want to play. Your hand simply has no chance to get any action unless it is way behind. Even if you are ahead and get action you certainly won't be able to keep pushing. I wouldn't even consider calling from the button and in a PL game I'm going to have very similar calling requirements from both spots to compensate for my poor position.

The hand as it played out is no shock. You had do-do and your bad position put you in a spot where you had no idea what to do. The re-pot bet could be from someone with a bare J, but why would he check that flop. Most likely he flopped or turned a better hand than yours. Even if he is simply trying to push you around, you have no choice but to let yourself be pushed.

I don't see why you think he would want to wait until the river to raise. Are you any more likely to call after he calls and a blank falls? In fact, when you bet you pretty much need to figure that you will either take the pot now or abandon the hand. If you had the button, you could bet the turn and check it down if called and fold to a check-raise.

Jim