facing donk + overcall on River, TPGK, easy?

no reads. Party 2/4

Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
6 folds, Hero Raises in CO, Button Folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop (6 SB): 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, Hero Raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn (9 BB): 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls

River (12 BB): K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB calls, Hero ?

[Nick C]

I'm calling.

I don't know what SB has, but his flop check/3-bet was a little bit scary.

I know he's slowed down since then, but he seems to like his hand.

Anyway, though, even if SB had just check-called the flop, I think I'd just call on the river. Donk-bets often mean improvement of some sort, and if Villain had enough to stay in with on this board up until now and improved, it looks like we probably just got outdrawn.

What I'm hoping for is something like A9o.

[Carmine]

My first reation was to raise this river with BB holding a weak Ace that he can't seam to let go because SB would have to be a terrible player to play KK/66/22 this way.

However, after studing the hand for another minute I realize this might be a very well played 66/22 by SB. If SB C/R the turn he he likely to only collect 2 more bets from Hero while pushing BB off his weak Ace. So by calling the turn and donking the river he makes 3 bets minimum or 6 bets if Hero is aggressive enough to raise which I think many players might as a good value raise with BB in there.

Even if BB is a total calling station and calls two cold on the turn then villian only collects 5 bets maximum. So it's 2(min)/5(max) with a C/R turn line for SB or 3(min)/6(max) with a smooth call turn, bet/3-bet river line.

So I think Nick is correct in just calling the river donk.

I would like to know if other 2er's agree with me that if SB has 66/22 he played it optimally.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm calling.

I don't know what SB has, but his flop check/3-bet was a little bit scary.

I know he's slowed down since then, but he seems to like his hand.

Anyway, though, even if SB had just check-called the flop, I think I'd just call on the river. Donk-bets often mean improvement of some sort, and if Villain had enough to stay in with on this board up until now and improved, it looks like we probably just got outdrawn.

What I'm hoping for is something like A9o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'm giving an unknown (usually passive) Party 2/4 player credit for more than TPWK when he check/3-bets into the PFR. I'm not so sure we weren't already behind before the river - it's likely that hero's flop cap just scared him into thinking we had a set; and a river raise would be retarded IMO.
I thought this was a 'call or fold' question.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
My first reation was to raise this river with BB holding a weak Ace that he can't seam to let go because SB would have to be a terrible player to play KK/66/22 this way.

However, after studing the hand for another minute I realize this might be a very well played 66/22 by SB. If SB C/R the turn he he likely to only collect 2 more bets from Hero while pushing BB off his weak Ace. So by calling the turn and donking the river he makes 3 bets minimum or 6 bets if Hero is aggressive enough to raise which I think many players might as a good value raise with BB in there.

Even if BB is a total calling station and calls two cold on the turn then villian only collects 5 bets maximum. So it's 2(min)/5(max) with a C/R turn line for SB or 3(min)/6(max) with a smooth call turn, bet/3-bet river line.

So I think Nick is correct in just calling the river donk.

I would like to know if other 2er's agree with me that if SB has 66/22 he played it optimally.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to say what would happen based on different flop lines, but I think with 66 or 22 most of the correct lines I can think of involve betting the turn (and probably betting the flop).

Betting out the turn assures that we get 3-4 bets you were talking about when he check-calls and bets the river, but also opens up the possibility of getting more because our hero is more likely to go to multiple bets on the turn than he is on the river.

In general, if I had 66, I'd probably be betting the flop, calling a raise, and donk-betting the turn.

I saw it as a call/fold situation as well. I think my hand is most often second best here given the action on the flop and the river donk. Also, the SB or BB will fold too often to a raise for a raise to be +EV.

Anybody think the flop cap is too much aggression? I think it is a must for value and to gain information and control of the hand.

Anybody checking the turn through? I think a bet for value is a must.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw it as a call/fold situation as well. I think my hand is most often second best here given the action on the flop and the river donk. Also, the SB or BB will fold too often to a raise for a raise to be +EV.

Anybody think the flop cap is too much aggression? I think it is a must for value and to gain information and control of the hand.

Anybody checking the turn through? I think a bet for value is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your flop and turn plays are fine.

I agree. I think SB must bet/call the turn holding 66 or 22. I think he would want to trap BB who looks like he is drawing or holding a weak ace.

SB should also probably bet/call A6 on the turn.

The river is a call; I don't raise because I expect to see Aces up from the SB.

I agree. In general slowplaying a set with an ace on the flop makes less money, no?