Raise pocket 9's in EP?

[MJL]

I've seen several posters recommend raising pocket 9's in EP with a limper in a small stakes full ring game. My usual standard stops at TT in EP. I am more interested in seeing a cheap flop unless the table is very tight and I expect it to get folded around. If its that tight then utg will usually have overcards. I would rather try to make a low investment, get callers then win a big pot. Please inform me on:

1. Why you raise.
2. Circumstances to make it right or wrong.
3. How do you proceed with a multiway pot on the flop when over cards are present.

Thread advocating raising with 99

[El Tigre]

I raise pretty much everytime

1.You probably have the best hand and you want to raise for value.

2.I raise it at pretty much every table, I really dont see the case for limping, except maybe for deception once in a while but at most low limit tables no one is paying attention anyway

3.extremely situational and based on players, maybe post a few examples

i raise 99+ EP every time. limper or not.

1. value; knock out small overcards.
2. you def dont want to limp in with multiple LAGs behind you. you'll get raised and re-raised. then you'd probably have to fold in most cases. which sucks. i can't think of a reason to limp in.
3. bet until told otherwise, with passive players. proceed with caution with aggressive players. it depends.

Personally, I advocate both raising and limping some fraction of the time. I think the key is to achieve 1, 2, 5+ opponents, then play accordingly. Without any knowledge of my opponents, I usually limp EP here and if it is not raised behind me, then I presume no one else has TT+ and play accordingly. In multiway pot (>=3 opponents) and more than one overcard, I check fold under usual circumstances. With only one overcard I will usually bet to see where I stand unless there are 4 or more oppnents. At my level: 2/4 and equivalent BM limits, people love any two cards that add to twenty.

[MJL]

[ QUOTE ]
raise pretty much everytime

1.You probably have the best hand and you want to raise for value.

2.I raise it at pretty much every table, I really dont see the case for limping, except maybe for deception once in a while once in a while but at most low limit tables no one is paying attention anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still thinking this and others ideas thru. I see two types of tables in small stakes.

1. Loose where any raise will get a couple cold calls, the blind(s) and the limper. Thus I now have invested an extra bet to have a multiway pot where 20 of the 50 cards left will be dangerous to me. These kind of players will call down with any TP and even middle or bottom.
If I hit my set I may have limited the action because they fear a big hand already.

2. Tight. I get most to fold. Well I can usually pick up this pot but its a lot less than a big multiway that I can raise, ck raise, 3bet etc the TP, 2pair, draws. If I miss it only cost me 1sb. I can also spew a lot of chips trying to push out a better hand and fail.

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3.extremely situational and based on players, maybe post a few examples

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I linked the thread that led me to this post.

"1. Loose where any raise will get a couple cold calls, the blind(s) and the limper. Thus I now have invested an extra bet to have a multiway pot where 20 of the 50 cards left will be dangerous to me. These kind of players will call down with any TP and even middle or bottom.
If I hit my set I may have limited the action because they fear a big hand already.

2. Tight. I get most to fold. Well I can usually pick up this pot but its a lot less than a big multiway that I can raise, ck raise, 3bet etc the TP, 2pair, draws. If I miss it only cost me 1sb. I can also spew a lot of chips trying to push out a better hand and fail."

1) I see that you play 2/4. If you hit your set, it is not true in general that you will not get action. If you get 5 callers to your raise then this is perfect. Some will get a peice of the flop some will have overs, and with the bigger pot, they will hang around for more. If you expect 5 callers to your EP raise, then I say raise 99 a lot, if not always.

2) You should be happy with this result, too, as it is profitable. 99 holds up well against 1, 2 opponents. Better to win little than lose big.

please explain why you'd want to raise if you want 5 callers. i would think that if you're expecting 5+ callers, you'd want to limp, though raising is not a bad play. 99s wouldnt' play so well against 5+ cold callers, no matter how loose they are IMO...

Careful, that's not what I said. If my goal is 5 callers, then I limp. But, if I believe that my raise will get 5 callers, then I will do so because whether limping or raising, geting 5 callers while holding 99 is +EV. I am drawing to a set in this case.

[jason_t]

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Better to win little than lose big.


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This is ridiculous. If 80% of the time I win 3 BB or 10% of the time I win 25 BB which is better?

[MJL]

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1) I see that you play 2/4. If you hit your set, it is not true in general that you will not get action. If you get 5 callers to your raise then this is perfect. Some will get a peice of the flop some will have overs, and with the bigger pot, they will hang around for more. If you expect 5 callers to your EP raise, then I say raise 99 a lot, if not always.

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No I usually play 6/12 10/20 live 5/10 online. that was another poster. I was using the thread to point out those who recommended raising preflop (although they haven't commented on this one).

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2) You should be happy with this result, too, as it is profitable. 99 holds up well against 1, 2 opponents. Better to win little than lose big.

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I am okay with this but not happy. the difference could be 5 to 10 BB.

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please explain why you'd want to raise if you want 5 callers. i would think that if you're expecting 5+ callers, you'd want to limp, though raising is not a bad play. 99s wouldnt' play so well against 5+ cold callers, no matter how loose they are IMO...

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Quote:
Better to win little than lose big.




This is ridiculous. If 80% of the time I win 3 BB and 10% of the time I win 25 BB which is better?

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Exactly!

I have stated my reasoning for limping 99 in a full ring and have not closed the door to raising but have not figured out why so many are advising it as a general rule. I want to better understand this adivice being given and see what I am missing.