River Bet after being check-raised on the Turn

#1 10-25-2005, 04:30 PM

Hi!

I am still quite new to the game and I feel I am wasting quite some money on the river by calling too much and betting too often in bad spots.
This hand is an example for the latter, I think, although I want to stress the point, that I do not want to implie whether I won or lost this hand.

I have seen the villain only for about 30 hands. During these I haven't noticed him too much, which means, he plays pretty tight (about 25%) but actually does raise often when he gets into the hand (about half the times: 10%, pt says).
So I feel the check-raise on the turn is pretty serious but I can't figure out a hand that he seriously might be playing from SB against my PFR that could use the Turn THAT much except of TT. I can't make an educated guess about the possibility of him semi-bluffing a flush-draw.

But I DO think that my line of calling that raise and then betting the river again was terrible. I think I should've either 3-Bet the Turn against a try for a free SD and then bet out at the river or called the raise on the turn and checked behind. I feel I am begging for another check-raise with a better hand like TT here and not getting any more money from a worse hand.

What do you think?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB.

DoomSlice · #2 10-25-2005, 04:36 PM

I think I 3-bet the turn and also bet the river if I'm not 4-bet.

This looks like some combination of AT, maybe even AT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] if SB was looking to keep the field around for his flush draw.

RiverDood · #3 10-25-2005, 04:51 PM

Any time someone calls a flop bet in a multiway pot and wakes up to raise a seeming blank on the turn, I take a moment to consider whether they're slow-playing a flopped set.

At higher limits, we could discount this a little because an SB with 88 might have been more aggressive preflop and an SB with 33 might have let it go preflop. But at low limits, it's perfectly standard for someone with a small/middle PP to cold-call any number of bets.

I don't have the nerve to three-bet the turn, but I can understand the strategy. On the river, I'm suprised he called. I'd expect either a fold or a c/r.

Hope the hand worked out for you. Most times I'd check behind on the river, figuring that I'm either far enough ahead that my bet wouldn't be called, or far enough behind that it will be thrown back at me as a c/r.

Aaron W. · #4 10-25-2005, 04:51 PM

3-betting the turn is fine, but I'm often wary of turn check-raises at a full table (shorthanded, I'm usually less concerned).

Calling the check-raise with the intent of calling any river bet is a good line. Once he checks to you, you can bet-fold comfortably. I don't know why you're so concerned about TT, since he could have hand like T9 that just improved a huge amount, or a dopey hand like A8. You might see Qx[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] sometimes, but that's going to be a rarity.

Sometimes you value bet the river and get shown down a better hand. This does not mean that the value bet was wrong. Go think about that.

deception5 · #5 10-25-2005, 05:04 PM

Notice that his check/raise knocks out the other player rather than traps both for an extra bet. This is not nearly as strong as if there was a caller after you. I'd go ahead and 3-bet the turn here.

Edit: I can see an argument for just calling down if the opponent does not seem to know what he is doing.