10/20 6max, Typical Situation - Page 3

___1___ · #21 06-29-2005, 08:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you realize you had a double gutshot?

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Ummmmm, on the turn I need 3.5-1. If I give myself 10 outs I guess it's a wash (3.6-1). Eh, it's close. Do you not agree (considering the line I took)?

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Jeff W · #22 06-29-2005, 09:06 PM

I think you have enough to call w/ implied odds+chance you'll hit a 6 or 7 and get a free showdown.

You're getting 38:8 or 4.75:1 on the draw and you're getting 3.5:1 pot odds. I think you make more than a little more than 1.25 BB on implied odds.

___1___ · #23 06-29-2005, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have enough to call w/ implied odds+chance you'll hit a 6 or 7 and get a free showdown.

You're getting 38:8 or 4.75:1 on the draw and you're getting 3.5:1 pot odds. I think you make more than a little more than 1.25 BB on implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough...

At least now I know why my WSD is lower than everyone else in this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Victor · #24 06-29-2005, 09:34 PM

i bet the flop. i bet the turn if its heads up otherwise checkcall the turn.

i am certain that if your line is bet, bet then you follow thru and bet the river so long as it not a q and you are headsup.

Subfallen · #25 06-29-2005, 09:44 PM

I would bet this everytime against reasonably tight opponents, but there's no point in semi-bluffing against loosies. They'll call here with two overs or any sort of gutshot, and you don't have any showdown value.

If I did bet and was called by a loose player, however, I would fire again on most non-A turns, as lots of players only fold on the turn. If I bet and am called by a tighter player, it's a check-call, check-fold situation.

sam h · #26 06-29-2005, 09:46 PM

I think betting is easily best here for three reasons. First, you do have some folding equity on the flop, however small, because one of these hands is random and the other is still quite possibly some junk like K2s. Second, you are unlikely to get raised and against the range of hands that will call you on the flop you are not doing that bad anyway so its not necessarily bad to put a bet in even if you are usually behind when called. Third, betting the flop sets us up to bet the turn, when quite a few of the hands that called the flop will fold unimproved.

I would also bluff the river on a lot of boards, if necessary.

Jeff W · #27 06-29-2005, 10:03 PM

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I'm going to disagree with everyone else in the thread and say that I check-call this flop.

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I thought about this hand some more and my original post is wrong. This is a good spot to semi-bluff the flop and turn because of the wide hand range of our opponents, though it may require that we bluff many river cards. The semi-bluff chances are better value than the chance of receiving a free card on the turn.

joker122 · #28 06-29-2005, 10:15 PM

my post wasn't sarcastic actually. oh, and all of your posts have contained questionable to flat out bad advice - and i'm not just saying this because you decided to attack me.

imitation · #29 06-29-2005, 10:43 PM

Hey 1 guy, I am going to agree with you and say if you think it's intuitively right for "you" to check/call here, then it probably suits your game, maybe you aren't as agr with made hands as others here so this kind of flop check/call keeps you getting paid off or just works for you. But intuitively I think for me this should just be straight out bet/bet/ check/fold.

I think betting some river cards has merit though, exactly what I don't know, perhaps some randomized game theory or something is worth doing here, say any of the gutters which make our hand, say we bet with any made straight + any 2s or 3s which hit the board (i don't know is this optimal?). I would check/call on the end with any made pair.

___1___ · #30 06-29-2005, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this hand some more and my original post is wrong. This is a good spot to semi-bluff the flop and turn because of the wide hand range of our opponents, though it may require that we bluff many river cards. The semi-bluff chances are better value than the chance of receiving a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

After looking at the math I also think betting the flop and turn is correct. Luckily (for me), this post will certainly act as a catalyst for me to go through a bunch of hands and make sure the math is matching my intuition.

Actually, when decision after decision seems routine its quite refreshing to see that you're wrong in a situation. Very nice, guys.

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