Interesting Live Hand - Flop a Huge Draw Against Loose Players

[Ulysses]

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So you are saying that with all that limping a set is not possible out there?

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Of course it's possible. Range of hands, Lawrence. Fold equity, Lawrence. Pot equity, Lawrence. Each of these things, as well as what is likely to happen on the turn, need to be considered.

[Ulysses]

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On the turn, if the board does not pair I would shove the rest of my stack in. If the stack is going to go all-in no matter what - that's how it should be played.

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That is so horrible, Lawrence. I suspect you don't play much NL.

To clarify, your position is:

a) You are very likely to be up against legitimate hands on the flop that will call, so you don't want to push.

b) You want to push on the turn to a non-pairing card.

OK, against a range of likely hands on the flop, we have both folding equity plus there's a good chance we're the favorite.

On the turn, we're quite likely to not get a call if we push when we make our hand (unless we're up against real idiots, but that is at odds w/ your flop thoughts) and if we do get called on the turn on a blank, we're in a very -EV situation.

Ugly.

[Ulysses]

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Still a shove all-in the flop against another raiser who most likely has a legimate hand on the flop is a bad idea. Sure the guy has good +EV, but...

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On the turn, if the board does not pair I would shove the rest of my stack in.

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I just reread your post and am really confused.

So your position is, the flop reraise is +EV, but you would rather pass that up for a -EV play on the turn?

[Wayfare]

Diablo, that is exactly what he is saying. I am confused by lawrence's posts in general: it seems like every single one he puts a lot of effort into trying to coherently explain why the worst play possible is what you should do.

[Zag]

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your stack might be going in no matter what, but the opponents' aren't. if they see you flat call a flop bet and then push on the turn when the flush gets there, their calling standards will go up a lot relative to the case where you just pushed on the flop.

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I agree that this is the big down side of just calling. But with just a drawing hand to the nuts or near-nuts, I really want the customers. I am pretty sure that the reraise will lose them.

How about this: [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just call, wait for the flop action to complete, but then loudly announce "All-in blind on the turn," and push your chips in while the dealer is getting ready to burn and turn.