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#11
09-24-2005, 11:55 PM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] His line is awful. [/ QUOTE ] I can see how it would seem awful to anyone who automatically bets 100% of the time on the flop when they raise preflop. [/ QUOTE ] It seems awful because it is awful. 1: On the flop, he only has to take the pot down 1/7 times with a bet to make betting correct. On the turn, he has to win 1/4 times and he is more likely to be called by any pair . 2: Bluffing flops like this increases his EV when he has a pair of aces or kings or better. 3: Checking the flop encourages SB/BB to take a shot at the pot on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] i thought it was awful too. wtf-------he hit a dream flop against the blinds and checked. why?! 
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#12
09-24-2005, 11:58 PM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] His line is awful. [/ QUOTE ] I can see how it would seem awful to anyone who automatically bets 100% of the time on the flop when they raise preflop. [/ QUOTE ] It seems awful because it is awful. 1: On the flop, he only has to take the pot down 1/7 times with a bet to make betting correct. On the turn, he has to win 1/4 times and he is more likely to be called by any pair . 2: Bluffing flops like this increases his EV when he has a pair of aces or kings or better. 3: Checking the flop encourages SB/BB to take a shot at the pot on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] i thought it was awful too. wtf-------he hit a dream flop against the blinds and checked. why?! [/ QUOTE ] He plans to check the flop next time he flops a monster? I'm not saying this is a great idea, just trying to play devil's advocate.
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#13
09-25-2005, 12:07 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
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He plans to check the flop next time he flops a monster? I'm not saying this is a great idea, just trying to play devil's advocate. [/ QUOTE ] Mark 5:6-20...For Jesus said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And the demons answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And Legion besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand  and were choked in the sea. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country.
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#14
09-25-2005, 12:08 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He plans to check the flop next time he flops a monster? I'm not saying this is a great idea, just trying to play devil's advocate. [/ QUOTE ] Mark 5:6-20...For Jesus said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And the demons answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And Legion besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#16
09-25-2005, 12:12 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
[ QUOTE ]
3: Checking the flop encourages SB/BB to take a shot at the pot on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] It varies. Sometimes, players who habitually play back on the flop are less likely to take a shot on the turn. To a lot of players, it looks very suspicious when the PFR checks. I'm not saying it was a great play by Seif, but it's hardly terrible.
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#17
09-25-2005, 12:19 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
[ QUOTE ]
It is a joke. It might not be a good one. [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't sure if it was a joke, or a clever way of saying my suggestion was stupid, etc. I was just trying to direct the conversation away from "this is the stupidest play ever!" and hope others could chime with possible interpretations of how this could be correct.
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#18
09-25-2005, 12:47 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
I don't see why everyone is upset about this. I think Mark Seif plays bad but I don't think he got this hand wrong really. I don't use this play ever, but I have seen the "check behind when an ace flops and I don't have an ace" line work for other people, and I can see why when considering how I react when somebody does this to me, which is to go into a shell and fold at the first opportunity.
The other players in the hand could have been tight, and perhaps Seif thought there was a very good chance one of them flopped a hand that he wouldn't give up, but then when the turn got checked to him again he decided to bet. Really, I think calling this play awful is a bit harsh, especially if the players are not intimately familiar with him this line looks an awful lot like monster. -Michael
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#20
09-25-2005, 03:33 AM
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Re: 87s UTG (mark seif)
I agree with Michael. I'd bet the flop, but his line isn't that bad -- he raised PF in hopes of either taking it down or at least getting heads up. He ended up 3-handed and totally airballed the flop. He decided he was done with the hand and checked the flop, intending to fold to a turn bet. But then something weird happened -- both blinds checked again on the turn, and he realized they didn't like their hands much either, so he used his position to take a stab, and the stab worked. He's not going to do that often, so it's okay to show the bluff.
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