Bad use of "Stop and Go"?

[Zinzan]

Nice post, Lloyd.

But your example of holding a pair of tens... I'd point out a stop-n-go can be done with any two cards. In fact, I'm more likely to use the stop-n-go if I *don't* have anything.

Also, I never attempt a stop-n-go in a multiplayer situation--only heads-up. Maybe it can work, but I would think it would reduce the effectiveness of the play substantially.

In general, I use a stop-n-go when I'm in the blinds with a very small stack*, feel the raiser is likely on a steal (or a late limper just wants a peek at the flop), I don't have any folding equity preflop, and I don't particularly care for my hand. If I have something as good as TT, I'm pushing, as I think I've likely got the best hand and want to bet when I know he'll call.

I'm less likely to use the stop-n-go if I believe the other player is strong.

-Z

*Especially if my stack is so small that losing these chips would significantly cripple me (e.g. blinds are 400/800 and I'm in the BB with t1200 total, the CO limps, and it's folded to me; or blinds are 150/300, I'm in the BB with t850 total, folded to aggressive button who min. raises).

[Lloyd]

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My logic at the time: I felt (incorrectly) that UTG+2 had AK, AQ, possibly AJ.

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Why did you not consider a pair? It's dangerous to put your opponent on such a narrow range of hands.

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When I called the raise, I thought "I'm all in with an Ace or Queen on the flop, or if its raggedy.

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It's great that you have a plan for the flop prior to seeing it although it doesn't seem like you to stuck to it. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

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or think I have have a bigger overpair if either has a pocket pair.

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I think if you really had a big pair you'd re-raise pre-flop.

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They are risking their tournament by calling

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True, but it seems like you're getting to the point where people will have to take some risks, even in marginal situations. So if they get a decent piece of the flop or have an overpair they will most certainly call.

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For this reason alone, all-in pre-flop might have been the superior play (not a good play here, but simply better than the way I played it) -- although UTG+2 very likely would have called with QQ.

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Obviously he would have called with QQ. But more importantly, you've got a hand that is very easily dominated and not one that I want to risk a lot of chips with after people have already entered the pot. I don't mind playing AQs because of the flush value, but you have to be able to get off the hand when dominated.

[DonButtons]

Terrible play. Next time think of what hands UTG might have and what mp might have before actually doing the play.

Also, make your read before the flop comes, because I see too many people trying to make reads based on the flop outcome.

[patrick dicaprio]

not enough info, but assuming that your opponents are typical for this type of game it seems to me that your opponent will usually call here. the pot is large enough that if he has a medium pair he knows there is a chance his hand is good. he is getting a little over 2-1 odds on a call and even is he has AK he may call anyway. i would push here preflop if i wasnt folding and calling is probably the worst option but i am open to the possiblility that it isnt.

Pat

[patrick dicaprio]

Re: your use of the stop and go in the blinds: this is mostly when i use it.

Pat

[woodguy]

Great post Lloyd.

If anyone is having trouble understanding the concept of the stop n' go, here is an example:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP (t2535)
Button (t2805)
SB (t1200)
Hero (t875)
UTG (t585)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t200</font>, SB folds, Hero calls t100.

Flop: (t450) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t675 (All-In)</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: t1125

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins t1125. </font>

Regards,
Woodguy