Big pot with TPTK

Isura · #1 12-22-2005, 02:40 AM

Villain sat down this orbit. All my hand posts seem to be with no reads.. I hate 100bb stacks, I don't see a way I can control the pot here and still protect my hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($111.80)
SB ($94.40)
BB ($30.10)
UTG ($84.60)
UTG+1 ($100)
UTG+2 ($124.35)
MP1 ($102.80)
Hero ($96)
MP3 ($120.40)
CO ($104.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, CO calls $6, 3 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($15.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO calls $12.

Turn: ($39.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $25, CO calls $25.

River: ($89.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $61.60 (all-in), Hero calls $53 (all-in)

Final Pot: $89.50

DJ Sensei · #2 12-22-2005, 02:50 AM

I don't see much any way around this one. Maybe a river blocking bet, but your stack isnt really deep enough for a good one. Lousy TPTK, always getting us into trouble...

Maulik · #3 12-22-2005, 02:53 AM

The problem is, if you check the river he's betting any Queen and you feel obligate to call. Any bet and he may not call without the 8.

In any event, I bet more on the turn.

Why didn't you rebuy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It would have cost you $4 more! I don't think calling the river is 'solid' but not always certain. Tough spot =[

Isura · #4 12-22-2005, 02:55 AM

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In any event, I bet more on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

That commits us to calling the river anyways, no?

Maulik · #5 12-22-2005, 02:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In any event, I bet more on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

That commits us to calling the river anyways, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

It definately does, but at least you've got more money in before the draw hits or the river pairs.

soah · #6 12-22-2005, 03:18 AM

The turn bet really messed this hand up. A flush draw is probably going to stay in for that price, which means you have no idea where you're at on nearly any river card. I'd bet more on the turn and then just put in the rest on any river card (assuming you're willing to put in your entire stack). I don't like checking the river because your opponent will generally call with more hands than he'll bet with in this spot, but it's sorta messed up by the fact that he might still be in there on a flush draw (I don't think a flush draw bluffs often enough to make this a check though).

Another option with these stack sizes is to checkraise all-in on the turn, although I don't know if typical players in this game are aggressive enough to make this your best move.

I don't like playing pots this big with one pair but as far as I can see, the only two ways to avoid it here are to find a way to fold postflop, or to change your preflop play.

PinkSteel · #7 12-22-2005, 09:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like playing pots this big with one pair but as far as I can see, the only two ways to avoid it here are to find a way to fold postflop, or to change your preflop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm lost on hands like these. Specifically, top pair OOP. Would love to see more comments.

What about checking the flop? I know he hit it, but the real problem is OP's preflop raise got called behind, and he's OOP for the hand.

I think the preflop raise is fine, I'd make it too to buy the button, but if unsuccessful I'd slow down immediately. With these cards, the caller has you over a barrel, and you're likely to win a small pot or lose a big one.

Check the flop, planning to call a modest bet, and either fold (more often) or checkraise and be done thereafter (less often) any bet of 2/3 pot or more.

Reasonable?

Or maybe checking invites too much aggression, and ~1/2 pot, say $7, would be better, fold to a raise?

jd2b2006 · #8 12-22-2005, 12:21 PM

[/ QUOTE ]Another option with these stack sizes is to checkraise all-in on the turn, although I don't know if typical players in this game are aggressive enough to make this your best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about checking the turn here? I think if villain checks behind, it would be safe to assume he is on the draw. However if he bets, you are in a bind and do not have much info on what villain could have. Soah, what would be the purpose of the c/r here? Is it to end the hand here (since this is hard to play OOP) if villain is bluffing? I have been in the same situation as OP many times recently and think these types of hands are extremely difficult to play.

#9 12-22-2005, 03:45 AM

seriously? everyone calls this, without reads? if you're gonna call anyway, a block seems to be sooo in order. since you didn't, i'd seriously fold. i refuse to believe that two lousy queens is good here more than ~40% of the time.

soah · #10 12-22-2005, 03:51 AM

With those numbers why would you fold?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]