New to SNG's, question on pre-flop play.

[Koss]

After about a year of playing poker I've decided to learn the SnG game starting at the Party $11's, which I find to be incredibly soft. I feel like I've got a pretty good understanding of NL Hold'em, and I've been reading posts here trying to get a feel for some of the concepts exclusive to SnG's. The one thing I've noticed is some people being criticized for limping with some speculative hands.

I've always followed the 5-10% rule, where it's ok to play any speculative hand for less than 5% of your stack, never more than 10%, and inbetween is at your discretion. I've been calling 60 chip raises in the early going with some small pairs hoping to stack an overpair. Is this something people do in these things, or is it best to play ultra-conservative early on to save chips?

[tigerite]

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I've always followed the 5-10% rule, where it's ok to play any speculative hand for less than 5% of your stack, never more than 10%, and inbetween is at your discretion.

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That has never been posted at all. It has been posted about small pairs, but even then it is not just your stack but that of your opponent's that counts, too. Plus the fact that when you hit, you have to stack them a very large % of the time to make it profitable. But calling 5-10% with stuff like QJs? No, that is not what it is about at all. Where you got that idea from I'm really not sure.

[nyc999]

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I've always followed the 5-10% rule, where it's ok to play any speculative hand for less than 5% of your stack, never more than 10%, and inbetween is at your discretion.

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That has never been posted at all. It has been posted about small pairs, but even then it is not just your stack but that of your opponent's that counts, too. Plus the fact that when you hit, you have to stack them a very large % of the time to make it profitable. But calling 5-10% with stuff like QJs? No, that is not what it is about at all. Where you got that idea from I'm really not sure.

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This is frequently posted in the NL forums in regards to calling raises (and true, mostly about pp's) - but this is a bad idea in SNG's with shallow stacks and rising blinds.

[Jbrochu]

The 5/10 rule is a good guideline for when you and your opponents have deep stacks like 50 to 100 bb's.

[Postiga]

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I've always followed the 5-10% rule, where it's ok to play any speculative hand for less than 5% of your stack, never more than 10%, and inbetween is at your discretion. I've been calling 60 chip raises in the early going with some small pairs hoping to stack an overpair. Is this something people do in these things, or is it best to play ultra-conservative early on to save chips?

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I'd call 60ish raises with 55 when several other people are in the pot. You really need to be sure of winning a big pot. It'll be rare that you'll be sure a single player has an overpair when the raise is giving you the odds to call (Usually I'd need a raise and a reraise to be sure. Or a big raise that obviously doesn't want to give odds to callers, which by definition you can't call). Suited connectors just muck, because if you flop a draw you won't be given the odds to chase.

Generally just play tight in the early levels. I like to limp in late position with semi-strong hands, but I never call raises with them.

[Winwood]

I'd call in minraise to 60 in LP with 55. If its a 4xBB raise to 60, or I'm in E/MP then I probabaly fold, unless I've got a big stack. When you combine the 7/8th time you miss and have to fold with the times you hit but don't get a big payoff, you've got to be pretty choosy

[tewall]

This is a well known rule of thumb, probably becoming known by Ciaffone and Stewart's book on big bet poker. Ciaffone may have been the first to publicize this rule of thumb, but I'm not sure about that.

[tewall]

A difference between lower limit SNG play and live play is that in live play and +EV situation is worth pursuing. In SNG's, you have a big edge in the end game play, if you understand the fundamentals. Plus there's a premium on surviving. So putting these things together provides motivation for being tighter than you would be in ring play. Situations where you have a clear edge should be pursued, but marginal situations should be avoided.

So in the call-with-a-pair example you gave, if you think calling is clearly +EV, go ahead an call. However, if you're unsure or think the edge will be a small one, you're probably better off waiting for a better opportunity.

On the 5-10% rule, if you stick to 5%, that will probably work out fine. You want the situation to be very favorable to play drawing hands, like being in last position and having several people limping in front of you. Actually this is just like a live game, but just with more emphasis on the draw being very favorable.

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I've always followed the 5-10% rule, where it's ok to play any speculative hand for less than 5% of your stack, never more than 10%, and inbetween is at your discretion.

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That has never been posted at all. It has been posted about small pairs, but even then it is not just your stack but that of your opponent's that counts, too. Plus the fact that when you hit, you have to stack them a very large % of the time to make it profitable. But calling 5-10% with stuff like QJs? No, that is not what it is about at all. Where you got that idea from I'm really not sure.

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This is frequently posted in the NL forums in regards to calling raises (and true, mostly about pp's) - but this is a bad idea in SNG's with shallow stacks and rising blinds.

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On the other hand, as someone mentioned, do not let a good thing pass when you are in position. I have been ITM numerous times because of a good position gamble with LP or suited connectors. An early double-up affords too much breathing room to be taken lightly. This changes, IMO, once we get past level II.

Fairly new as well (500 SNG's) but found ultra conservative early play seems to be prefered by the typical winning players. PP in late position not terrible but the less hands you play early the less likely you will get caught in the cross fire of a donk race. Also extremely tight play builds fold equity for late game play. Of course many good SNG'ers have learned to work the flop and navigate the donks but this play is probably not for the new SNG'er (even seasoned poker veterans new to the SNG's). Doubling up early is not as huge of an advantage as it may seem in the SNG's. It helps but don't under estimate the value of fold equity when the blinds get high.