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  #1  
Old 11-23-2005, 04:36 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Default Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

Down to the final 8 in Super Tuesday.

Payouts

1st: $35532
2nd: $19796
3rd: $13536
4th: $10152
5th: $8460
6th: $6768
7th: $5076
8th: $3384

Stacks

UTG: t143275
UTG+1: t35187
Hero: t109062
MP: t62936
CO: t53909
Button: t178686
SB: t177020
Villain: t367925

Reads

Villain had been playing very aggressively since accumulating chips - raising most hands pre-flop. I hadn't played too many hands at the final table other than a couple of SB v BB steals. He and I played on a previous table where I only showed down good hands so I figured he knows I'm not on a pure steal here.

Hand

Blinds 4000/8000

2 folds, hero has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and raises to t22000. All fold to the villain who calls t14000.

Pot: t48,000

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain bets t15000. Action is on the hero.

There is now t63000 in the pot and I have t87062 behind.

I'm not sure about the pre-flop raise given the shorter stacks at the table. And I'm not sure what to make of his bet or how I should play the hand out. I do think he bet an amount that commits all of my chips. If I call here I'm pretty committed to the hand so I did think his bet could possibly be a cheap way to put me to the test.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2005, 05:07 AM
dwd dwd is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

I don't claim to be an expert at final table situations at all being that I have only been to a handful of them, but I just don't think you want to mess with the chipleader here with 3 stacks shorter than you if you fold, which means at the very least one and most likely two will go out before you even if you don't pick anything up soon. That's $2-3k in real money almost guaranteed by folding here. I think there is a better spot to get your money in than with that flop against the chipleader.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2005, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

With his chip lead, he could be calling with any two cards from the BB and has a 1/3 chance of hitting the flop in some way. I'd be calling your raise in his position and I would be putting you on face cards or an ace with a decent kicker, I wouldn't be putting you on a high pair. So I would bet in his position whatever the flop and betting that sort of level (committing all of your chips not mine).
In essence, you might be the favourite but you've got no way of knowing. A re-raise here would either see him fold if he's got no pair and no draw but he'd have to have absolutely nothing not to call it. I don't think it's worth the risk. But, then, I would be happy with a higher place. I wouldn't be playing for first place, unless the cards let me.
You could call and hope for one of your many outs but if it doesn't hit on the turn, IMO, you're going to do your table image no favours by folding on fourth - they'll be better draws to chase.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2005, 07:03 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

bah crappy spot.. i think i'd fold, he might be making a move on you, or maybe he cought a peice of the board and is willing to go to showdown with it. I think the problem here is play ATo w/ that stack size. Maybe i'm being too tight, but w/ a stack that size i think i'm probably folding there.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2005, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

I think he does this with almost any hand. He called a raise, but he could probably call a raise with any two. Now? Fold or straight up gamble and push/raise. I'd probably fold, since I'd still have 87k which is plenty for now.

That said. I would open fold the AT. Chip leader will be able to put you in this position too often while risking relatively little of his stack. You have no idea what the chip leader has. He could have T9, mid pair, top pair, a set, two pair, air..., etc. I would rather spend 22k raising with absolute trash against a better target. Pick on someone your own size. I feel risking 1/5 your stack against the far and away chip leader is not getting the most out of your stack. You're pricing yourself in to call MP and CO if they push and you'll almost always be dominated by their hands and you can't really call any other push. An option I like is open limping for value, trying to hit something. There's probably a good chance it gets folded around and if you pair up, you'll probably get some money out of an aggressive chip leader.
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2005, 09:09 AM
HesseJam HesseJam is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

This is why you shouldn't play AT pre flop against him. He will make a play no matter what he has and you can't defend unless you hit your hand hard. Go against all others, especially No 2 and 3.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2005, 10:48 AM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

Call.

He's testing you, and his range is wide (and you may improve on the turn)

If he fires again on the turn and you don't improve you can safely fold, but having an aggro player lead out at me doesn't tell me he has me beat, it tells me hes aggro.

A call is probably the best option beacuse:

1) firiring two barrells with nothing can be tough, even for an aggro chipleader

2) if he checks the turn and you bet, two things can happen, he can raise (easy muck), or flat call and then you are to the river while being the aggressor so if he bets the river you can easily muck. If he checks the river and you have not improved, you probably have to check behind as he has called twice on a board that's not too drawish, so he probably calling here.

If you raise his flop lead and he calls, you are now in the position of either:

1) Betting the turn, which is now a much bigger bet given the size of the pot. If he calls you are probably beat and shouldn't put in more chips on the river unimproved, but now this line has cost a ton

2) Check the turn. This will look weak and he will probably fire at the river, to which you have to fold unimproved. Probably not a bad idea as you get two cards to improve, but you will certainly face a river bet and may lay down best hand.

I like a call here, especially since he didn't raise PF, and calls look scarier than raises, especially here, and are cheaper too, and may get you a free river, should you decide to take it.

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2005, 11:22 AM
zambonidrivr zambonidrivr is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

Your table images sucks. You raised the chip leaders blind, he played back at you... and you have now donked off 20% of your stack. FOLD and pushbot the rest of the way.

GG
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2005, 11:32 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

Are those comments more on the pre-flop side? What about on the flop?
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2005, 11:35 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Default Re: Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

What about pre-flop?

On the flop, maybe we can call and get away from it on the turn. But certainly if we raise we're pot committed given our stack size.
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