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  #1  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

Little background...the table was not as LAG as this hand would lead you to believe. This was considered a lot of action on this albeit low-limit Party table.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

OK, I limp UTG. I can raise here but I want to play this hand multi-way. So I limp. I get a lot of action which pleases me.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Great flop for me. A bit co-ordinated but still I assume I'm ahead. I get a LOT of action here and I'm starting to wonder if I'm behind to someone's higher set?

Turn: (17.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

UGGGG. 789T, two spades, two clubs...gotta figure I'm behind here and I have a bettor and raisor right in front of me. I'm getting 10-to-1 odds on my money here (where I figure if my 10 outs are clean I'm about 20% to hit a boat or better), but if I'm behind to a higher set, I'm really in trouble. I assume my 10 outs aren't totally clean, and so I fold to the added aggression.

River: (23.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] The "good" news is I probably don't get a lot of action on this river? The three opponents held KcKh, JsJd, and Jh4h for a two-way split-pot with J-high straight.

Final Pot: 23.25 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 23.25 BB, between MP2, CO and UTG+2.</font>


Any advice? Did I play this hand well or poorly? Funny thing is I was 5-tabling and on my next hand at the other table I made quad 8's for like a 10BB pot. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Why couldn't I have lost THAT pot? lol.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:50 PM
shant shant is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

That is a terrible turn fold. Count up your outs to fill up and look at what the pot is laying you on the turn.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:53 PM
jason_t jason_t is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

Even if you knew you had to pay four bets to see the river, you should still call. That turn fold is absolutely terrible.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:54 PM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

First things first... .50/1 goes in micros. No biggie, just so you know for the future. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Preflop is good; you should never be folding a pocket pair on a Party .50/1 table (if the table conditions are such that limping would be wrong, then you need to find a new table).

Flop is good.

You cannot, ever, fold a set on the turn in a big pot. Period. Okay, maybe once in a blue moon you'll have such a good read on your opponent that you can be 110% sure that he's got a bigger set, and then you can fold (although even then, I'd call down just in case). In this case, you have no reason to believe that you're trailing a bigger set; two pair is possible, which would cut down on your outs somewhat, but it's just as likely that CO has JJ, MP2 has QJ/JT, UTG+2 has a 6/flush draw...you name it. You have to call for your FH outs here.

God was telling you something when that 7 came on the river. Don't fold the turn with a set!!
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

Really bad fold. Huge pot and you've got odds to chase the boat/quads.

Sometimes I forget myself and almost fold here too. You can fill up!!!
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:58 PM
Nick C Nick C is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

Preflop is fine, and your flop play is good.

You're not really getting played back at that much on the flop though (there was only one raise), so I'm not sure why you're thinking set over set already. Someone could be slowplaying a set (or a straight), it's true, but I don't think you should assume someone is.

I wouldn't fold on the turn, but the situation does suck. You're almost certainly behind, and on a board this coordinated, with this many players in, you have to wonder how much you should discount your non-quads outs. If the board pairs tens on the river, for instance, you could lose to someone's T9o. And it looks like it could cost you four BBs to get to the river.

Still, I don't think you should fold your draw to a boat/quads. The pot is just too big. And MP2 and CO appear just to have straights.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2005, 12:14 AM
JacksonTens JacksonTens is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is just too big. And MP2 and CO appear just to have straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the answer to this thread.

JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2005, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

[ QUOTE ]

You're not really getting played back at that much on the flop though (there was only one raise), so I'm not sure why you're thinking set over set already.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, anyone here with top or mid set caps after I three-bet. Duh! I should have automatically assumed I'm up against straights/overpairs/flush draws, and in that case I'm like 20% to hit the river and the pot is laying me 10-to-1.

Follow-up question...should I smoothcall the turn raise, or 3-bet it?

Thanks for the input guys. I think this was a product of me 5-tabling for the first time. If I had more time to concentrate on the hand I probably realize nobody else has a set here.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2005, 10:40 AM
mtdoak mtdoak is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

This looks like an 'expert' laydown in a big pot, a terrible mistake at small stakes hold'em.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2005, 10:41 AM
aargh57 aargh57 is offline
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Default Re: low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me.

Grunching

I try for a check/raise on the flop. This seems like a great time to go for one. Your going to get paid off by lots of drawing hands and you want to get the most now when you've got the pot equity.

I don't fold this turn. I think you're starting to see monsters under the bed if you're worried about bigger sets already. You could easily be up against 2 pair, TP+flush draws, even still just flush/straight draws. I don't fold in a pot this big with a hand that could still be best and has chances to improve.

River, I'm banging my head against the wall at this point.
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