low limit multi-way hand. Please berate me. - Page 2

SeaEagle · #11 10-25-2005, 10:42 AM

Just a couple of add-on comments:

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You're right, anyone here with top or mid set caps after I three-bet. Duh! I should have automatically assumed I'm up against straights/overpairs/flush draws, and in that case I'm like 20% to hit the river and the pot is laying me 10-to-1.

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I think you're worring too much about another set. You only need 4-1 pot odds to make a profit here. You could be up against bigger set 50% of the time and it would still be correct to call 2 bets on this turn.

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Follow-up question...should I smoothcall the turn raise, or 3-bet it?

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Only call. You're surely behind and you have no reason to knock anyone out.

#12 10-25-2005, 11:18 AM

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Little background...the table was not as LAG as this hand would lead you to believe. This was considered a lot of action on this albeit low-limit Party table.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

OK, I limp UTG. I can raise here but I want to play this hand multi-way. So I limp. I get a lot of action which pleases me.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Great flop for me. A bit co-ordinated but still I assume I'm ahead. I get a LOT of action here and I'm starting to wonder if I'm behind to someone's higher set?

Turn: (17.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, CO raises, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

UGGGG. 789T, two spades, two clubs...gotta figure I'm behind here and I have a bettor and raisor right in front of me. I'm getting 10-to-1 odds on my money here (where I figure if my 10 outs are clean I'm about 20% to hit a boat or better), but if I'm behind to a higher set, I'm really in trouble. I assume my 10 outs aren't totally clean, and so I fold to the added aggression.

River: (23.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] The "good" news is I probably don't get a lot of action on this river? The three opponents held KcKh, JsJd, and Jh4h for a two-way split-pot with J-high straight.

Final Pot: 23.25 BB
Main Pot: 23.25 BB, between MP2, CO and UTG+2.

Any advice? Did I play this hand well or poorly? Funny thing is I was 5-tabling and on my next hand at the other table I made quad 8's for like a 10BB pot. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Why couldn't I have lost THAT pot? lol.

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i agree with aargh57, betting out the flop doesn't protect your hand against any flush/ straight draw. Preflop action came from the CO, looks perfect for a CR to charge the draws 2 bets. After that, never fold a set and hope to fill up when on the river after the board gets ugly on the turn.
Q.

TripleH68 · #13 10-25-2005, 11:19 AM

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I get a LOT of action here and I'm starting to wonder if I'm behind to someone's higher set?

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This is terrible thinking.
There is both a str8 and flush draw on a very coordinated flop.

You should be thinking of how you have a powerful hand, outs to improve it and the joy of a bloated pot. Folding is not an option.

krimson · #14 10-25-2005, 11:57 AM

Just to beat a dead horse. Never fold this turn! You have 10 outs and probably take down a number more bets on the river when you hit.

droolie · #15 10-25-2005, 12:16 PM

You didn't need to ask to be berated. That was inevitable.

Holy cow I hate that fold. The pot was ginormous dude and you folded what most times is a very live draw. Take it with no grease, bite the pillow and hope for the best on the river. You will see a str8 not a higher set like 90% of the time there. Folding in such a large pot because you fear a higher set on a board that coordinated is stupfid, moranic and well worthy of a few kittens being slaughtered.

MrDannimal · #16 10-25-2005, 12:17 PM

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i agree with aargh57, betting out the flop doesn't protect your hand against any flush/ straight draw. Preflop action came from the CO, looks perfect for a CR to charge the draws 2 bets. After that, never fold a set and hope to fill up when on the river after the board gets ugly on the turn.
Q.

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This is silly. The pot is 16.5 SBs. If the CO bets out like you want, and either the button or BB calls, your raise is offering 20.5:2 or over 10:1. With implied odds, a gutshot is right to call there. Flush draws don't care about a raise, they're getting odds to call anyway. Anyone with a pair is getting odds to call and hit their 5 outer.

A checkraise isn't really any better at protecting the hand than betting out.

Here's the rub: You don't really need to protect your hand here. You have a set. Yes, there are straight/flush draws out there. But you're well ahead of them and have 7, then 10 out re-draws to a boat. Bet out and hope you get raised so you can 3-bet.

felix83 · #17 10-25-2005, 12:27 PM

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I get a LOT of action here and I'm starting to wonder if I'm behind to someone's higher set?

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This is terrible thinking.
There is both a str8 and flush draw on a very coordinated flop.

You should be thinking of how you have a powerful hand, outs to improve it and the joy of a bloated pot. Folding is not an option.

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This post said exactly what I wanted to say. Not to keep adding salt to the wound, but given the texture of the board there are tons of possible hands they could be holding. If the board was J72 and there was the same action, maybe you could start so suspect a set from a PF raiser. But here, there's no reason.

I'm sure this hurt a lot, but if this hand fixed this leak in your game forever, it was a pretty cheap lesson. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

#18 10-25-2005, 12:49 PM

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I'm sure this hurt a lot

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No, not really. Not monetarilly. It hurt that I made an obvious mistake in a huge pot but the fact that I "lost" ~$25 has almost no impact on my bankroll. I'm still learning limit play. And I was 5-tabling for the first time last night and I did it for an hour straight with only a couple glitches, and I still ended the session +13BB's. Sure it would have been nice to leave +36BB's but I screwed up and next time I'll be more wary of the board texture as well as my opponents play.

I can get that $25 back by playing NL for about 10 minutes! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Mostly I'm playing limit to master the game and move up.

#19 10-25-2005, 12:52 PM

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You didn't need to ask to be berated. That was inevitable.

Holy cow I hate that fold. The pot was ginormous dude and you folded what most times is a very live draw. Take it with no grease, bite the pillow and hope for the best on the river. You will see a str8 not a higher set like 90% of the time there. Folding in such a large pot because you fear a higher set on a board that coordinated is stupfid, moranic and well worthy of a few kittens being slaughtered.

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Yeah I get it. The 27 people ahead of you pointed it out without being grade-A d**chenozzles.

Feel good about yourself.

felix83 · #20 10-25-2005, 12:58 PM

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I'm sure this hurt a lot

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No, not really. Not monetarilly. It hurt that I made an obvious mistake in a huge pot but the fact that I "lost" ~$25 has almost no impact on my bankroll.

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Yea that's all I meant. I play 3/6 and 5/10 but if I somehow made this play at .25/.5 I'd still be kicking myself. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]