the real simon trumper

[realwtf]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello, I am Simon's partner...After coming back from the Rio, Simon read the ESPN article and was so furious that he went back there to talk to the tournament director and the reporter...In 2 words, Barny Boatman, Peter Costa and Huck Seed were on the table and they all said to the tournament director that Simon took less than 2 mn to raise (after checking the nut), and he never slow rolled his cards...He just out played a great player.
He will do a post on his site or i'll ask him to reply on this forum too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks! Would like to hear the other side.

[Martin Aigner]

Now if that is true, and since I don´t know Barry G personally, but do know Simon Trumper, Barney Boatman and Peter Costa, I tend to believe Simons version. Barry G seems to have made a huge [censored] out of himself. Of course the truth might just lie in between the two statements, but again, Barney B and Peter C seem to be very reliable people to have as witnesses. To difame somebody just because being outplayed is classless and even worse than playing an act plus slowrolling somebody. Now I do know that Barry G does lots of good things for both society and the promotion of poker, but this doesn´t make up for what Mathilde says he did here.

Again, those who weren´t at the table and have no first hand knowledge can´t know for sure, but the witnesses brought up by Simon seem to be as reliable as they get.

Martin Aigner

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Every word he wrote is dead-on. If you can't see what makes it different then read it again.

There are a great many "tragedy of the commons" type behaviors that it is understood you just don't do because (as he clearly spells out) the "defense" against them is for everyone to do them, and everyone loses big if everyone does them. Dragging out a river check-raise with the nuts is the most unambiguous example of this I can think of.

If you play any number of tournaments you should know exactly what he is talking about. If you don't then your opinion has no relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this type of behaviour is completely disgusting, no outplaying was involved if the discription is accurate. What I don't understand and forgive me I'm not the best Omaha player in the world, is why Barry doesn't just check behind here would a worse flush draw call the turn bet, would a set pay off on the river? I can only see one reasonable hand Trumper could have, and he needs the whole stack to make his turn call correct, seems like a check behind situation to me.

Regards Mack

[barryg1]

[ QUOTE ]
Now if that is true, and since I don´t know Barry G personally, but do know Simon Trumper, Barney Boatman and Peter Costa, I tend to believe Simons version. Barry G seems to have made a huge [censored] out of himself. Of course the truth might just lie in between the two statements, but again, Barney B and Peter C seem to be very reliable people to have as witnesses. To difame somebody just because being outplayed is classless and even worse than playing an act plus slowrolling somebody. Now I do know that Barry G does lots of good things for both society and the promotion of poker, but this doesn´t make up for what Mathilde says he did here.

Again, those who weren´t at the table and have no first hand knowledge can´t know for sure, but the witnesses brought up by Simon seem to be as reliable as they get.

Martin Aigner

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I talked to Huck (who was at the table) and he said it was between two and five minutes. He wasn't sure because he left the table and discussed the big pot with people at neighboring tables. Johnny Chan (at the adjacent table) accurately told Huck that Simon does that with the nuts.

2. I have conditioned myself not to react after losing a big pot, so I said nothing initially. I was upset at myself that I bet on the river, since I had initially planned on checking if a spade came off or the board paired.

3. I didn't think Simon should have been barred, but I didn't like what he did and I decided to rile him up.

4. I talked to Simon directly because I don't generally talk behind people's backs.

Barry

[sekrah]

Now the REAL question.. Why did you bet the river?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Martin Aigner]

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to Huck (who was at the table) and he said it was between two and five minutes

[/ QUOTE ]

Barry, with all due respect, there is a HUGE difference between 2 minutes and 10 minutes. I´m not saing that 2 minutes is ok, since it still is a (probably too) long time, but not quite as terrible as 10 minutes. Of course, you might not have stated that it was 10 minutes at all, but since you didn´t object to this detail of the ESPN article I guess that´s what you stated originally.

BTW, if I was on the table, and I definetly haven´t spent as much time on poker tables as Huck Seed (most probably less than 5% of the time Huck spent), I would know the difference between 2 and 5 minutes. The difference is so huge, that this statemend alone is ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
Johnny Chan (at the adjacent table) accurately told Huck that Simon does that with the nuts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I don´t know if Simon does that with the nuts on a regulary basis (I haven´t seen it yet), but I do know that he did it at least once with KK preflop and folded after more than 10 minutes. (actually the hand was declared dead after the clock was put on him)

From the ESPN article:

[ QUOTE ]
Even when he turned his hand over,'' Greenstein said, "he turned over the 8 of spades, and then the ace of spades. He slow-rolled his hand.''


[/ QUOTE ]

I´d really be curious about this statement, since I can´t imagine Simon to slowroll you and there seem to have been witnessen who´s point of view seem to differ from yours. Did you make that accusation and what about the (seemingly) statement of Barney, Peter and Huck?

Martin Aigner

[Martin Aigner]

In case this question was meant to be serious. He made a value bet and thought that he would get away from it if raised back. Now the act of Simon made him call for whatever reason (Barry stated this in the ESPN article). Guess, if Simon acted like he did for 15 seconds, and not for 2 or whatever minutes, Barry wouldn´t have made the call. One might say, that Barry was outplayed (or outacted, which is part of the game)

The behaviour of Simon was definetly within the rules, and likely the only way to make Barry call. Now as I stated in another post, there is a huge difference between 2 and 10 minutes, but if it´s 2 minutes what it takes to make Barry to call, I´d do it every time.

Martin Aigner

[sekrah]

If it worked, then it sounds like sour grapes from Barry!

It sounds like he was more upset that he got suckered in by a supposedly shady play.

After thinking about it, and if it were only between 3 minutes, I don't see anything wrong with Trumper's play at all!

It does sound like he just got outplayed. It might have been a unorthodox move, but it was within the rules and it worked to a T!

I just really don't see the point of betting on the river.. You're only going to get re-raised if your beaten and when you consider the range of hands Simon has after his cold flop and turn calls? A set seems very unlikely with the straight possibilities.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Popinjay]

So if it's not okay to take a lot of time to raise with the nuts, is it okay to take a lot of time to raise with a bluff?

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
but if it´s 2 minutes what it takes to make Barry to call, I´d do it every time.


[/ QUOTE ]

I really want to play against you then, I estimate we'd get in around 5 hands an hour, and the rest of the time would be spent with me waiting for you to stop [censored] around.

Think about it.

Mack