Why did Jesus die for us?

I know, I know....to forgive our sins so that we could someday join him in heaven. But why? Why was it necessary for the son of God to die to achieve this?

He was executed for being a terrorist. Justify it whichever way makes you feel happiest.

Christians will tell you how it shows God's sacrifice for our sins, yadda yadda yadda. But does any Christians ever think this: What was the huge sacrifice that Jesus really made? He died painfully on a cross? Okay, as did many others through history. But those others didn't know they were going to rise from the dead and rule in heaven for all eternity. So, what was the big deal? I mean THINK about it. You are Jesus. You know that you are the Son of God and just inhabiting an earthly form. You know the time on earth is nothing because you come from Heaven and are going back to Heaven. Why should a few hours of pain mean anything to you? It's like you have everything you could ever want, and yet have to put it aside for a few minutes and go native, then have everything again. Wow, what a sacrifice. Even simple things like these questions show the absurdity of the "faith".

It's a symbolic gesture. God, who is proud and mighty, debased himself and suffered terrible pain for a while to show mankind he had forgiven them.

For eating the apple...lmao.

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It's a symbolic gesture. God, who is proud and mighty, debased himself and suffered terrible pain for a while to show mankind he had forgiven them.

For eating the apple...lmao.

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Meaningless gestures of false humility give me more reason not to worship this "god" even if he exists.

[sexdrugsmoney]

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Christians will tell you how it shows God's sacrifice for our sins, yadda yadda yadda. But does any Christians ever think this: What was the huge sacrifice that Jesus really made? He died painfully on a cross? Okay, as did many others through history. But those others didn't know they were going to rise from the dead and rule in heaven for all eternity. So, what was the big deal? I mean THINK about it. You are Jesus. You know that you are the Son of God and just inhabiting an earthly form. You know the time on earth is nothing because you come from Heaven and are going back to Heaven. Why should a few hours of pain mean anything to you? It's like you have everything you could ever want, and yet have to put it aside for a few minutes and go native, then have everything again. Wow, what a sacrifice. Even simple things like these questions show the absurdity of the "faith".

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First of all, I would never read an essay on theology written by you because it is clear you have not researched Christianity in the slightest, specifically the historically debated nature of Christ. (ie- the question of duality of nature or not)

Secondly, to understand Jesus' death properly and why it happened that way one must understand alot of Jewish law after the 'fall' of mankind (the "apple" for you noobs) and this is in the Torah. (which is complex)

Jesus' death is supposed to be very symbolic and tied into many things throughout Jewish history (such as Abraham and the near sacrifce of Isaac etc) and stand as hope and example for future humans about living a life that pleases God, until said God decides to end this experiment/game/show/"life".

An example, from the begining of YHWH worship, a sacrifice must have been special and worthy. (Cain and Abel - Many examples in Genesis and rest of Torah about 'good quality flock to be sacrificed' etc)

Christ is supposed to be the 'unspotted' lamb/good quality sacrifice, which is why he had to lead a life from a 'pure' perspective.

In the Book of Revelations, Christ is called the 'Alpha and Omega' and in many ways this book seeks to tie up "the story" by giving prologue to Genesis, and epilogue to the gospels/paul's writings etc.

But anyway, this issue is so complex that a post on an internet forum from a hungover person cannot do it justice.

Therefore if you only take one thing from this post, take this:

If you want to hold a certain belief, fine, but you should do the research before hold any belief, and you should research greatly if you wish to be dogmatic about it.

Seldom are things in life simple. The greater the weight something has or professes to have generally means the more complicated it is likely to be.

Just starting with the issue of a God, you are opening a whole pandora's box of complexity that will never result in a definite answer because of our mortal restrictions, let alone an easy one.

If you believe otherwise, then that is the only absurd belief here my friend.

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But anyway, this issue is so complex that a post on an internet forum from a hungover person cannot do it justice.

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Nice. Of course, I don't really even drink, but it exemplifies how Christians think.

And I've read the New Testament. I was very religious until the age of 16. I would bet I have read far more about Christianity than you have read about anything which disputed it.

Beware the man of one book.

What ELSE have you read? Christian perspective is not the be all end all of religious thought.
I too have given up on the dogma of 'religion' yet I still find the need to feed my soul.
I am spiritual not religious.

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What ELSE have you read? Christian perspective is not the be all end all of religious thought.
I too have given up on the dogma of 'religion' yet I still find the need to feed my soul.
I am spiritual not religious.

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Agreed. But I choose to "fill my brain" with books I feel contain more wisdom, rather than "filling my soul" with mysticism. You can learn a lot about other religious thought through history, etc. And being spiritual is kind of a catch-all term. I am deeply inspired by the writings of Thoreau and other naturalists. Is this spiritual?

Nietzsche said it well: "Mystical explanations are considered deep; the truth is that they are not even superficial."

[sexdrugsmoney]

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But anyway, this issue is so complex that a post on an internet forum from a hungover person cannot do it justice.

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Nice. Of course, I don't really even drink, but it exemplifies how Christians think.

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Actually I was refering to myself, who was hungover as [censored] when I posted that from drinking 2 40oz's on an empty stomach, and subsequently felt terrible. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

But I like when you said this:

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but it exemplifies how Christians think.

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Too simple an answer. Generalizing circa 3 Billion people based on how act and not how the text(s) they profess to believe in tells them to.

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And I've read the New Testament. I was very religious until the age of 16. I would bet I have read far more about Christianity than you have read about anything which disputed it.

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The mid-late teenage years are normally when one raised as a Christian will turn away, some come back a la "the prodigal son", others don't.

Christianity is tough religion to follow as a teenager, it requires alot to practice it properly.

The teenage years are naturally rebellious because one rejects the programmed parental information that is being recieved and has been recieved before the teenager had a chance to take a 'negotiated view' of it.

Couple this with a view to a wide world thats awaits them, full of endless opportunities (mostly getting laid, lets be honest [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) and a religion which has more programming and requires adherance and presto, which path would you bet on Joe-teen taking most of the time?

The prodigal son wasn't a story Jesus told because he was bored one day and nobody else had conversation skills. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway reading the NT is not enough, at the very least one must read the whole Bible from start to finish if they are to view the story in context and see if it makes sense (a hard ask which most people have not done - myself included) and even then the collection is so vast and deep you could study it for years and come back and still find new things. (Go ask some old Rabbi's who have read the Torah x number of times whether they continue to find anything new in subsequent readings)

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Beware the man of one book.

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What book is that? The Qur'an?

The Bible is a collection of 66 books, not one my friend.

Look, I take no joy in this 'debating' and ultimately whatever beliefs you choose to hold are yours. Free will and reason are gifts. (lets not debate who gave them to us)

All I'm saying is that life is complex, and thus a religion which attempts to explain life will also be complex. There are no easy answers, therefore one should not claim there is, and furthermore one should not partake in dogmaticism, despite how tempting it is given their current beliefs.

You quote Nietzsche, and the title of your essay is very original, but although Nietzsche had some interesting ideas, he ultimately could not conquer death, let alone insanity.

Is it not wise therefore, that if one is this powerless, they should take care then not to be dogmatic?