Free Tables and Learning (first post)

Here's my sitch:

I learned on free tables - learned how to beat them. Spent six months there and dominated the tables at NL and Om8.

I have read (no lie) 30 books on how to play poker.

Foolishly believed that I knew something. Watching WSOP and WPT led to this delusion of course.

As some have said, you learn how to play at the free tables, not how to win.

I did learn that - expensively, and despite reading many books, I did learn that "there is no substitute for experience".

Or as I have learned in other areas of my life, " 'Experience' is what you get from f**king up the first time! "

I pass this on as info so that others may learn from my mistakes.

Hubris.

Or "Pride goeth before a fall."

Of course I believe[d] that I'm a better poker player than I truly am! My wins are due to skill. My losses are due to "bad luck" or "I can't believe you called me with that hand!"

<SarcasmMode> = Off

Here's my point:

It has been said that "you can't learn from the free tables", but I have gone back there to learn. At this point, I am playing [play money] SNG tables only - SNG in Limit, NLHE, and Omaha both Hi and HiLo.

I try to play TAG there, and I have found that making it to the last three is some of the hardest poker I have played. True, there is no REAL money on the table, but that doesn't mean that folks don't use all of their skills to beat you.

And I have also found that those folks have played some serious money, have read "The Bible" and "The Theory of Poker", etc.

I could go on, but I'll just leave it with . . .

Comments welcomed.

TJ

[handsome]

Read these forums and you'll be fine.

I will add to that by saying that I am reading the boards and trying to "up" my game.

Other observations:

1) Like others, I believed I was better than I truly was!

2) I have seen posts by a number of people I have played!

3) The use of software to add an edge is greater than I realized. I should do that.

4) Apparently, every online poker site will cheat you, and none of your arguments will change my mind! [yes, that was a jopke]

5) I'm 45, and both my dreams of being the next Olympic pole vault champion or the next WSOP Main Event winner should be re-examined.

6) I can make money at this game if I apply what I learn from folks who know more than I do.

7) Apply what I learn from folks who know more than I do.

Thanks handsome, but my point is this:

Can I TRULY gain a better understanding of the game by playing SNG at the free tables?

I think I can.

And I know some folks who ONLY play free but play very good poker.

Putting your "money at risk" is only one motivation.

WINNING is another.

TJ

[ZBTHorton]

Can you learn a basic understanding of the game? Yes.

Can you become a winning real money player? No.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

If you play the highest play money sitngos at Stars the level of play is slightly better than the lowest cash SNGs ($1). That is free, good practice.

Do you learn anything from it?
Well, you will learn how to beat $1, but you would still suck at $10. Much of what you learn at any level in poker will be false when you get 2-3 levels higher as Poker is a game of adjusting your strategy to opposition. I.e. in a play money or $1 sitngo with blinds 20 you should raise your aces preflop to minimum 100 and bet at least 1 1/2 of the pot on flop since people will call with worse hand while when you bluff you can bet 1/6 of the pot, since if they are going to fold they fold to small bets too. Such a strategy at $10 would be disastrous. So progressing slowly, trying to understand the difference in strategy at the new level compared to the previous one, is key IMO.

Daym!

It's tough to make an argument at such a strong board. But that won't stop me . . .

> [1] Can you learn a basic understanding of the game? Yes.

> [2] Can you become a winning real money player? No.

My <cut-n-paste> skills suck. Cut me some slack.

I agree with your point [1].

[2] I wanted to "up" my game at no risk to my roll. Which I lost b/c I did not play well. [most of my losses were b/c I played over my skill level]

I have met folks who play SNG [play money] at a level that challenges me with no risk to my roll.

IOW, I get to learn, and the EV (yeah, I know that term does not apply) is only what I could earn during those hours I play for "nada".

ENTIRELY my point!

If you play the highest play money sitngos at Stars the level of play is slightly better than the lowest cash SNGs ($1). That is free, good practice.

Do you learn anything from it?
Well, you will learn how to beat $1, but you would still suck at $10. Much of what you learn at any level in poker will be false when you get 2-3 levels higher as Poker is a game of adjusting your strategy to opposition. I.e. in a play money or $1 sitngo with blinds 20 you should raise your aces preflop to minimum 100 and bet at least 1 1/2 of the pot on flop since people will call with worse hand while when you bluff you can bet 1/6 of the pot, since if they are going to fold they fold to small bets too. Such a strategy at $10 would be disastrous. So progressing slowly, trying to understand the difference in strategy at the new level compared to the previous one, is key IMO.

Well stated!!

Thanks!

Your best comment was "Did you learn anything from it?" and that is totally my point.

If I can't learn, or to put it another way, "learn how NOT to play", I should not play "for free".

I DID learn how NOT to play from playing free tables, and it DID cost me!

Let me rephrase that: I did learn how not to WIN by playing free.

Oh how the sharks must love the free tables . . .

Here fishy, fishy . . .

BUT . . .

Now I'm going BACK to the free tables AFTER playing for money (for about a year), and I'm picking the "hardest" of the free tables - the SNG tables (vs. the ring tables) and I'm playing as best I can.

I know this is a harsh board, and I accept criticism - welcome it!

I think this: if you want to learn "for free", play SNG. And play SNG games you don't know how to play. I [don't laugh] do OK at ring NLHE and Om8, and my tourney play at NLHE was "OK".

But my roll went down, and I wanted to "up" my skills.

Laugh if you want, but I have found that many of the SNG tables (*especially* limit) are harder than the $10 and $20 tables.

Just speaking from my own experience.

YMMV.

TJ

[SoftcoreRevolt]

If you've read 30 GOOD books on how to play poker, you should be able to play winning micro limit poker with pretty much no experience.

I learned poker 9 months ago and right now I'm making a nice sum playing $22 NL SNGs and bonus whoring low level NL. Point is, online poker is something tht is very easy to make money from as long as you have the right plan and strategy. Best advice, start with freerolls. I spent a couple days at the free tables and realized it wasn't really poker. In freerolls, you have people trying to win, you will learn good turney strategy, and you can make some money without risking anything. You shouldn't need 30 books to win at online poker, just some basic stats and strategy, and then some expierence at the low limits. Move up as each level gets easier and whabaaam.

Oh, idk if this answered your question or helped at all, but no, you cant learn [censored] from free tables besides odds, which you can learn in a couple minutes at http://www.tightpoker.com/poker_odds.html

Exactly! Are there even 30 good books out there? Put some money on the tables.